Hospitals get tough on smokers

9:41am Friday 12th October 2012 in News

A NORTH-EAST hospital trust will today launch a campaign to persuade hard-core smokers to stub it out while in, or outside, NHS premises.

County Durham and Darlington NHS Foundation Trust, which runs Darlington Memorial Hospital, Bishop Auckland General Hospital and the University Hospital of North Durham, went smokefree six years ago.

But the trust – which spends nearly £12m a year treating smoking-related diseases – has had problems persuading a minority of smokers not to lightup outside hospital entrances.

Now, on the sixth anniversary of the trust-wide ban, hospital bosses are launching a more intensive campaign to dissuade people from smoking.

The trust has introduced “Fresher, Cleaner, Healthier, Greener” signs on lamp-posts, walls, floors and windows across each hospital site.

Staff have been given new guidance on how to approach those who persist in smoking on NHS premises and they will ask smokers to stub it out or leave the site altogether.

Darcy Brown, the trust’s health improvement lead for tobacco, said: “Since all NHS buildings became smoke-free in 2006, most patients and visitors are happy not to smoke anywhere on site.

“However, our smoke-free policy has been difficult to enforce in hospital grounds and we still get a minority of smokers who continue to light up, particularly around hospital entrances.

“Patients, visitors and staff all pass through the smoke in these areas.”

The trust’s stop smoking service has helped more than 52,000 people to quit smoking since 1999. Staff, patients and visitors can make use of the free service by calling 0800-011- 3405 or emailing cdda-tr.stop smoking@nhs.net

Comments(124)

chas says...
2:12pm Fri 12 Oct 12

'Staff have been given new guidance on how to approach those who persist in smoking on NHS premises and they will ask smokers to stub it out or leave the site altogether'.

When will the hospital learn that it cannot enforce such a 'policy' when it is not illegal to smoke in open public areas.

Report this post »

CharlesIIX says...
8:01pm Fri 12 Oct 12

When are those doctors, who genuinely have patients' welfare at heart, going to stand up to these anti-smoker fanatics and tell them where to stick their bigotry! When are they going to give those who foolishly think they are on some ill advised crusade to save the world or the cheeeldren, a good shake!

Of all the debase tactics employed by the tobacco CONTROL industry this one is probably the worst. Targeting and bullying smoking patients and their concerned loved ones when they are at their most vulnerable is not just abhorrent, it is immoral and that's ignoring the fact that patients health could be harmed, possibly seriously.

Remember too that the more people who quit smoking the MORE so called 'smoke related' illnesses are increasing. Food for thought?

Medical Professionals, remember the hipocratic oath; "DO NO HARM" and do not allow others to do so in your name!

Report this post »

robbithesmoggie says...
9:51am Sat 13 Oct 12

The smoking cult are back! Where's Soapy? There's no show without punch.

Report this post »

NO EINSTEIN says...
5:37pm Sat 13 Oct 12

I went to James Cook Hospital a few weeks ago, and as you go into one of the entrances on the right, some of the cancer patients with drips in there arms were stood smoking, it was beyond belief.

Report this post »

spoorsjone says...
5:55pm Sat 13 Oct 12

Is Charles for real a few weeks after my brother dropped down dead with a heart attack through smoking ,another smoker told me it could not have been caused by smoking because in his words " smoking cannot kill you only make you ill" !!! when will smokers join the real world? Doctors and other health proffessionals are only trying to help people to better health.

Report this post »

robbithesmoggie says...
7:05pm Sat 13 Oct 12

In fairness to chas and Charles, they come from a pro-smoking cult called freedom2choose. As with any cult, they don't contaminate their beliefs with anything from the real world. Watch out for them though, as well as talking nonsense like they have so far, they are not above telling lies to further their cause.

Report this post »

chas says...
2:13pm Sun 14 Oct 12

The moggie. Please stop telling lies. What I said about the hospitals cannot enforce any such policy is true.
I am proud to be a member of freedom2choose.info in fighting against prohibition, but tell me why you believe that CharlesIIX is also a member.

Report this post »

CharlesIIX says...
4:13pm Sun 14 Oct 12

NO EINSTEIN wrote:
I went to James Cook Hospital a few weeks ago, and as you go into one of the entrances on the right, some of the cancer patients with drips in there arms were stood smoking, it was beyond belief.
Exactly einstein - what sort of sick society treats its ill and vulnerable with such barbarity? These patients should not be forced outside and potentially have their treatment adversely affected by some flawed ideological dogma. Kudos to those smokers though for refusing to be cowed by bigots who are apparently quite prepared to indirectly kill them to win their argument. The only people I am aware of who support this sort of degrading treatment are being paid to support it.

We are living through a shameful, albeit temporary period of history and I am sure that the worst anti-smoker offenders will be called to account at the end of it. Most medical professionals despise this as much as any other decent member of society and will welcome its demise sooner rather than later.
Incidentally, why are hard core anti-smokers in the north east being allowed to push for worse treatment of vulnerable persons while many hospitals in the rest of the country are now amending their smoker hate policies?

Report this post »

CharlesIIX says...
4:22pm Sun 14 Oct 12

spoorsjone wrote:
Is Charles for real a few weeks after my brother dropped down dead with a heart attack through smoking ,another smoker told me it could not have been caused by smoking because in his words " smoking cannot kill you only make you ill" !!! when will smokers join the real world? Doctors and other health proffessionals are only trying to help people to better health.
spoorsjone; Would you be surprised to learn that heart disease is the BIGGEST killer of never smoking males over 50 and never smoking females over 60 in the US? (probably the same here in UK) Smokers, do also suffer from heart attacks but they are more likely to be less severe with a better prognosis (Referred to as the ‘smokers paradox’).

It is a sad testament to anti-smoker propaganda that you can honestly but incorrectly believe your brother’s “heart attack through smoking”. It is not possible to definitively attribute smoking as the ‘cause’ of any disease. Despite what you have been told, there is not one disease, allegedly ‘attributed’ to smoking, that non-smokers are immune from. It is maybe this that your smoker was trying to explain to you.

Report this post »

robbithesmoggie says...
4:43pm Sun 14 Oct 12

If smoking is harmless, why do the cult need to lie?

Here are some lies told by freedom2choose members on the northern echo forum in the past.

Lie No 1 Soapy with his claim that the Foundation for the Study of Infant Death " has said htat there is no relationship between smoking and SIDS" The truth is that the Foundation really say
“How significant is the risk of cot death if I smoke when I'm pregnant?
Smoking in pregnancy is dangerous. Scientific evidence shows that around 30% of deaths could be avoided if mothers didn’t smoke when they were pregnant.” And
“The risk of death also rises with the number of smokers in the household. A family with one smoker has nearly 5 times the risk of a cot death of a non-smoking household, while there is 11 times the risk if two people smoke and 16 times the risk if three or more people smoke.”


Lie No 2 Whistle with her claim that "The anti-smoking lobby has killed billions world-wide in pursuit of its goals." The current number of tobacco related deaths worldwide is 600,000 a year. To reach the first billion deaths from smoking would take 1,667 years. Whistle said billions (plural) so we're looking at over 3,300 years, taking her claimed action by anti-smoking groups back to 1292BC during the reign of King Ramses 2nd in Egypt.

Lie No 3 Handyanphil with his claim "Perhaps then the ban would have been seen to be a success instead of costing every person in the land £300 per annum to oversee this ban. There is no way that sort of expenditure can be justified-but then there is no way this gov't can justify the way they have skint this country!" Phil’s claim, when calculated for the population of England, is £15.3Bn a year, 50% more than the entire cost of all the country’s police forces.

Report this post »

robbithesmoggie says...
4:47pm Sun 14 Oct 12

Chas is of course incorrect in his first post. Whilst the national smoking ban doesn't apply outdoors, the land occupied by hospitals isn't public, but private. This is why they can charge for parking and clamp your car if you dont pay. Similarly, if the trust wants people not to smoke on its land itis perfectly capable of making a no smoking rule and asking people to put their cigarette out or leave the site.

Report this post »

chas says...
5:21pm Sun 14 Oct 12

The moggie. Since when was the NHS a private company?

Report this post »

robbithesmoggie says...
5:46pm Sun 14 Oct 12

Chas, your cult brainwashing is making you ever more stupid. Do they attach electrodes to your brain to drive out any vestige of intelligence that might be lurking there. I'm sure that the reasonable north east readers will understand that not all land owned or operated by public bodies is open to the public without restriction. For example, I'd like to see Chas driving his car across Otterburn Ranges during a live firing exercise (I really would), but that doesn't mean the MOD is a private company. It just means that the real world is too complex for brainwashed cult members to understand.

Report this post »

chas says...
5:58pm Sun 14 Oct 12

Moggie. So you admit that the NHS is a public cmpany. So it's land is also public and as smoking is not banned in open public areas the hospital cannot ban smoking in open pulic areas.

Report this post »

robbithesmoggie says...
7:31pm Sun 14 Oct 12

Try driving on the Otterburn or Catterick Ranges when the tanks are live firing Chas. It might help to drive the point home that public bodies in charge of public land can impose restrictions on what the public can do there. Your inability to understand is your problem. You're either remarkably stupid or have been successfully brainwashed by your cult.

Report this post »

chas says...
7:45pm Sun 14 Oct 12

Moggie. What makes an anti-smoker like you so thick?
NHS hospitals are PUBLIC.
Their grounds are PUBLIC.
Smoking in open PUBLIC are is legal.
Are NHS hospitals located in 'Otterburn or Catterick Ranges'?

Report this post »

robbithesmoggie says...
10:11pm Sun 14 Oct 12

By your special and deluded definition, the ranges at Otterburn and Catterick can't have rules applied to them because they are publicly owned. The fact that the smoking ban doesn't apply outdoors does not mean that a hospital trust can't bring in an outdoor smoking restriction on the land which it controls, and to which the public have access by permission (you don't have the same rights to be on a hospital site as you do on a public highway). The only problem here is your lack of intellect Chas.

Report this post »

CharlesIIX says...
1:05am Mon 15 Oct 12

Well robbi those members of freedom to choose must have given you a hard time in the past to invoke such a deep seated phobia in you. I will leave you to your vendetta against them in terms of semantics and specific figures but I have to say that the ‘lies’ you quote are, in principle nothing of the sort.

SIDs; The anti-smoker advertising (propaganda) agency, ASH US was censured several years ago by the director of the Infant Death Syndrome Alliance for publishing figures about smoking/SIDs deaths that were “Insensitive generalisations”, “sheer speculation, or guesses” “served only to perpetuate the public’s misconception”. (ie. they made it up) The letter was ignored, the figures continued to be quoted and tobacco control scientists have done their best to link smoking to SIDs deaths. Reality does not match anti-smoker rhetoric however. SIDs deaths increased the most during the time that smoking prevalence reduced the most. The same inverse relationship was also clear in relation to child asthma, another subject of fallacious claims by anti-smokers - very important for them to foster the false perception that children are being harmed by smokers while denying any beneficial effects.

Not quite sure why you compare anti-smoker related deaths with 600,000 so called tobacco related deaths in alleged #lie 2? (there were allegedly 400,000 in US alone 20 years ago!)

However, given that the tobacco control industry has for years diverted attention away from real causes and cures of so-called ‘smoking attributed diseases’ and those diseases have continued to increase, it is fair to say that the anti-smoking lobby has killed many, the only argument is how many. The amount of money they have wasted is substantial too, but again, exactly how much is open to debate.

Report this post »

chas says...
9:38am Mon 15 Oct 12

Moggie. You get more stupid every day.
NHS hospitals are PUBLIC so are PUBLIC highways.
Their grounds are PUBLIC so are PUBLIC highways.
Smoking in open PUBLIC areas is legal

Report this post »

robbithesmoggie says...
1:33pm Mon 15 Oct 12

Chas, cult member from Suffolk. "Smoking in open PUBLIC areas is legal” unless the body in control of that area are given powers to make rules (which Hospital Trusts are) and they make some rules (which they have).
I doubt that you'll ever understand this Chas, but stop bringing your nonsense to the north east, we don't need or want it.

Report this post »

chas says...
3:12pm Mon 15 Oct 12

Moggie. Stop telling lies. NHS hospitals have not got the power to change the law.
You are so thick that you don't know the difference between PUBLIC and PRIVATE. Public companies cannot enforce their rules, but a private company can

Report this post »

ianh says...
4:45pm Mon 15 Oct 12

without getting into pathetic name calling, using chas's argument the hospitals could not (say) impose car parking charges on their site.


Given that they can and do, i would expect that they do have the right to impose a no smoking rule on the sites under their control. (in just the same way as they impose rules and restrictions within their "public" buildings)

Report this post »

pxatkins says...
5:26pm Mon 15 Oct 12

Public property is operated under the authority of the public body that has been legally assigned to do so. Vis. the hospital is responsible for and has authority over all within its boundaries; front gate to back door.

Smoke your brains out. Just don't stink up the rest of us.

Report this post »

chas says...
5:45pm Mon 15 Oct 12

ianh. Do you really believe that NHS hospitals can make any rules they like and enforce them?

Report this post »

spoorsjone says...
7:24pm Mon 15 Oct 12

Charles how dare you trample on the memory of my dead brother, do you think you know more than the doctors and the coroner who handled his case? if you and your fellow smokers want to kill your selves with smoking go ahead make my day- but don't inflict your stupid excuses on the general public,if you think smoking is harmless i'll gladly pay for your habit to make sure you choke on your words.

Report this post »

spoorsjone says...
7:25pm Mon 15 Oct 12

Charles how dare you trample on the memory of my dead brother, do you think you know more than the doctors and the coroner who handled his case? if you and your fellow smokers want to kill your selves with smoking go ahead make my day- but don't inflict your stupid excuses on the general public,if you think smoking is harmless i'll gladly pay for your habit to make sure you choke on your words.

Report this post »

spoorsjone says...
7:25pm Mon 15 Oct 12

Charles how dare you trample on the memory of my dead brother, do you think you know more than the doctors and the coroner who handled his case? if you and your fellow smokers want to kill your selves with smoking go ahead make my day- but don't inflict your stupid excuses on the general public,if you think smoking is harmless i'll gladly pay for your habit to make sure you choke on your words.

Report this post »

ianh says...
11:23am Tue 16 Oct 12

chas wrote:
ianh. Do you really believe that NHS hospitals can make any rules they like and enforce them?
Think my understanding of what is under the control of a public authority was clear enough.

Consider the Houses of Paliament (a public building without doubt)
Would you expect to be allowed to smoke anywhere you like in the grounds?
You cant, and the same principal applies to other public sites, including hospitals.

Report this post »

oslokev says...
11:23am Tue 16 Oct 12

You can't argue with a sick mind people. The smoke has obviously disrupted his rational thought processes as well as clogging up his lungs.

Report this post »

chas says...
11:43am Tue 16 Oct 12

ianh. I went to the Houses of Parliament two years ago and was allowed to smoke in many OPEN areas.
A private company can evict a person who has drunk too much, but a NHS hospital cannot refuse treatment to somebody who has drunk too much.

Report this post »

ianh says...
11:51am Tue 16 Oct 12

"many open areas" therefore clear that there were planty of "open" areas where you could not smoke.
(given my recent visit i would dispute the "many" areas, but wont be too pedantic)
ie the authorities controlled the site decided where smoking was permissable.

I also think you will find that every hospital reserves the right to not treat somebody (ie, abusive, violent etc)

Report this post »

chas says...
12:54pm Tue 16 Oct 12

If the person is not abusive or violent the hospital cannot refuse to treat somebody who has been drinking or smoking.
MPs have been known to smoke even in their own rooms in Parliament.

Report this post »

ianh says...
1:13pm Tue 16 Oct 12

lost the will to live on this one.................
....................
.

Report this post »

chas says...
2:17pm Tue 16 Oct 12

ianh. You appear to think that NHS hospitals can make up their own rules. If they tried to ban drinkers, smokers and the obese from their sites how are they going treat them when required?

Report this post »

spoorsjone says...
2:48pm Tue 16 Oct 12

Chas,you are still making excuses quibbling about where you should be able to smoke look if you want to kill yourself by either smoking, drinking,e.t.c go ahead it's your life but don't expect any sensible person to agree with you just to calm down your inner fear.

Report this post »

spoorsjone says...
2:48pm Tue 16 Oct 12

Chas,you are still making excuses quibbling about where you should be able to smoke look if you want to kill yourself by either smoking, drinking,e.t.c go ahead it's your life but don't expect any sensible person to agree with you just to calm down your inner fear.

Report this post »

chas says...
3:49pm Tue 16 Oct 12

spoorjone. Repeating yourself will not make people to believe you.
NHS hospitals are PUBLIC.
Their grounds are PUBLIC.
Smoking in open PUBLIC areas is legal”

Report this post »

chas says...
5:20pm Tue 16 Oct 12

It is none of business if I choose to smoke even in hospital grounds, because:
NHS hospitals are PUBLIC.
Their grounds are PUBLIC.
Smoking in open PUBLIC areas is legal.

Report this post »

chas says...
5:20pm Tue 16 Oct 12

It is none of business if I choose to smoke even in hospital grounds, because:
NHS hospitals are PUBLIC.
Their grounds are PUBLIC.
Smoking in open PUBLIC areas is legal.

Report this post »

chas says...
5:21pm Tue 16 Oct 12

I should have said
It is none of YOUR business if I choose to smoke even in hospital grounds, because:
NHS hospitals are PUBLIC.
Their grounds are PUBLIC.
Smoking in open PUBLIC areas is legal.

Report this post »

spoorsjone says...
7:41pm Tue 16 Oct 12

Chas are you real,it's not a doctor who normally treats the effects of smoking you need it's a psychiatrist , you keep repeating about the right to smoke in public spaces so i'll repeat myself smoking causes several diseases that are fatal if not treated yes it is possible to catch some of those illnesses without smoking but that is not an excuse for smoking, but if a person is determined to wreck their health so be it.

Report this post »

robbithesmoggie says...
9:08pm Tue 16 Oct 12

spoorsjone, sadly Chas IS for real. He's from Suffolk and his cult invade discussions like this to preach their total nonsense.

If you want to see his other work he also posts, sometimes internationally, as Chas Winfield, suffolkpunch, chaswin and several other names. On one thread on another north east newspaper site he was both Charles and Winnie the Pooh in the same discussion. Winnie was supposed to be a non-smoker.

Report this post »

robbiejay says...
9:19pm Tue 16 Oct 12

NHS Trusts are responsible for their land, just as they are for grounds maintenance, street lighting, potholes etc despite there is public access to it. Just the same as schools and council offices. The trust can introduce rules, such as pay-to-park regulations.

As an ex-smoker, I now think it's funny to watch people dragging on a piece of paper stuffed with tobacco because they are too weak to live their life without a crutch!

Report this post »

drainman says...
4:44am Wed 17 Oct 12

It's easy to sort out really, let the hospitals charge people an extortanate fee for smoking on there properties just like theyve done for the car parks.

Report this post »

chas says...
9:24am Wed 17 Oct 12

More lies from the moggie.

Report this post »

chas says...
9:28am Wed 17 Oct 12

drainman. The hospital CANNOT fine people for smoking in their grounds nor can they force anybody off their grounds for smoking, because it is not illegal to smoke in open public areas.

Report this post »

robbithesmoggie says...
10:08am Wed 17 Oct 12

No lies Chas, you are very easy to spot.

Do you not see that the other posters from this region can see that you are too thick to understand why a hospital can introduce rules to regulate behaviour (and parking) on the land they control.

Nobody has suggested 'fining' smokers. Drainman suggested a fee, like they charge for parking. The original article says that people will be asked to put out their cigarettes or leave the site, which a landowner like the hospital trust is perfectly entitled to do (yes we know you don't understand this, but the rest of us are able to. Your stupidity is your problem)

You are also too thick to understand that smoking in pregnancy increases the risk of cot death, even though the medical profession are able to estimate the number of cases it causes.

I've noticed that you don't seem to bring your smoking propaganda to the local paper where you live. Surely the readers of the Ipswich Star deserve to read your nonsense, or do you reserve it for the rest of the world?

Report this post »

robbithesmoggie says...
10:09am Wed 17 Oct 12

No lies Chas, you are very easy to spot.

Do you not see that the other posters from this region can see that you are too thick to understand why a hospital can introduce rules to regulate behaviour (and parking) on the land they control.

Nobody has suggested 'fining' smokers. Drainman suggested a fee, like they charge for parking. The original article says that people will be asked to put out their cigarettes or leave the site, which a landowner like the hospital trust is perfectly entitled to do (yes we know you don't understand this, but the rest of us are able to. Your stupidity is your problem)

You are also too thick to understand that smoking in pregnancy increases the risk of cot death, even though the medical profession are able to estimate the number of cases it causes.

I've noticed that you don't seem to bring your smoking propaganda to the local paper where you live. Surely the readers of the Ipswich Star deserve to read your nonsense, or do you reserve it for the rest of the world?

Report this post »

rj1234 says...
10:20am Wed 17 Oct 12

What about respect Chas??? Respect for the hospital's principles, respect for people going to visit people ill or dying because of smoking? Respect for people who are ill or dying because of smoking? I am a smoker and I think it's disgusting people do not have enough about them to respect the wishes of the Trust and just not smoke or move off the grounds if they are that desperate.

Report this post »

chas says...
10:39am Wed 17 Oct 12

Moggie. You are so thick that you cannot see that:
NHS hospitals are PUBLIC.
Their grounds are PUBLIC.
Smoking in open PUBLIC areas is legal.

Report this post »

rj1234 says...
10:50am Wed 17 Oct 12

Chas - you're an idiot

Report this post »

robbithesmoggie says...
10:53am Wed 17 Oct 12

Well said rj1234.

Chas, why do you not spread this garbage through the Ipswich Star?

Your lack of respect for those of us in the North East is disgraceful, but doubly so while you lack the courage of your convictions enough to spread your ignorant garbage in your own home town.

Report this post »

chas says...
11:46am Wed 17 Oct 12

moggie. Why don't you ask your teacher the difference between public and private?

Report this post »

onlinereader says...
11:49am Wed 17 Oct 12

Like it or not, the evidence shoes how smoking does kill. My father and his 4 siblings died of smoking related diseases, his father also died of a smoking related disease. My sister who also smokes has respitory issues as a result of smoking, so I have to say I was pretty disgusted to see a number of smoking shelters for patients and visitors at North Tees Hospital when I last visited there. Putting things into perspective, no-one is going to die because they had to do without a cigarette whilst at the hospital, however, having one just might shorten their life.

Report this post »

robbithesmoggie says...
12:39pm Wed 17 Oct 12

Chas, your cult must use a particularly severe form of brainwashing for it to have destroyed so many of your brain cells.

I honestly don't think I've ever come across anyone so stupid and thoughtless.

Report this post »

robbithesmoggie says...
12:47pm Wed 17 Oct 12

I got my legal qualification a while back Chas, and I had a really good lecturer.

We did cover the difference between public and private, and also the rights and responsibilities of landowners.

This training allows me to tell that you don't understand because you're thick (and the level of simplification that you need to apply for YOU to think you understand things doesn't equate to the legal realities of the real world)

All of the other people from the north east who've posted here can understand that a public body managing public land can apply rules for how people behave whilst on that land.

Hospital trusts can legally require visitors to pay to park when on the site, and can fine or clamp them if you don't.

It takes an unprecedented amount of stupid on your part for you not to understand they can't introduce rules about smoking too.

The national law on smoking outside is irrelevant here, they can introduce more demanding rules if they want.

Report this post »

chas says...
1:23pm Wed 17 Oct 12

moggie. You should have got a better lecturor and then you would know the difference between public and private.
NHS hospitals are PUBLIC.
Their grounds are PUBLIC.
Smoking in open PUBLIC areas is legal.
Do you really think that NHS hospitals can introduce any rule they like?

Report this post »

robbithesmoggie says...
1:51pm Wed 17 Oct 12

It's actually spelled 'lecturer' Chas, but thanks for the comment.

My lecturer was actually a highly successful lawyer, and therefore more reliable than some idiot from Suffolk who has been brainwashed by his cult.

NHS Hospital Trusts are given very wideranging powers by the NHS Act to manage their operation and land as they see fit.

Report this post »

chas says...
2:11pm Wed 17 Oct 12

Go back to your lecturer and ask him for the difference between public and private.
Do you really think that NHS hospitals can introduce any rule they like?

Report this post »

spoorsjone says...
2:21pm Wed 17 Oct 12

yes

Report this post »

chas says...
2:26pm Wed 17 Oct 12

For a start they can ban eating and drinking on site?

Report this post »

akr says...
2:42pm Wed 17 Oct 12

I just don't like when people huddle around doorways smoking so that you have to walk through a smoke cloud to get in or out of buildings. I think that if you want to smoke, then go for it, but away from people who don't want to. If its round doorways, like Darlington Memorial hospital has been, its really not very nice. Same goes for the entrance of the Cornmill. You have to hold your breath and run through.

Report this post »

robbithesmoggie says...
3:27pm Wed 17 Oct 12

Chas, your cult brainwashing clearly left no brain cell unkilled.

Report this post »

spoorsjone says...
3:32pm Wed 17 Oct 12

grow up Chas and stop talking like an infant, doctors are there to help people not bully them .

Report this post »

chas says...
3:34pm Wed 17 Oct 12

Moggie. It's the anti-smokers who have been brainwashed by all the anti-smoking propaganda.
Do you really think that NHS hospitals can make any rule they like.

Report this post »

chas says...
3:37pm Wed 17 Oct 12

spoorsjone. Do you really believe that NHS hospital can make any rule they like?
Can they ban eating and drinking on site?

Report this post »

spoorsjone says...
4:50pm Wed 17 Oct 12

yes you numpty,you're still avoiding the point you have no legs to stand on with this thread so give up, by the way who is working the computer for you an idiot like you must need help to do so l.o.l.

Report this post »

chas says...
4:55pm Wed 17 Oct 12

spoorsjone. So you think that they can ban eating and drinking on site. Won't the patients die of starvation and thirst? You idiot!

Report this post »

drainman says...
5:32pm Wed 17 Oct 12

drainman wrote:
It's easy to sort out really, let the hospitals charge people an extortanate fee for smoking on there properties just like theyve done for the car parks.
Twas a joke guys................
....................
.....some of you need to go to hospital and have a humour injection.

Report this post »

spoorsjone says...
7:22pm Wed 17 Oct 12

still avoiding the issue Chas tut tut, come on tell me smoking is harmless which would be a disapointment to me,because at least smoking would get rid of a few idiots like you.

Report this post »

chas says...
7:30pm Wed 17 Oct 12

Whether smoking is harmful or not is not the issue. The issue is if smoking can be banned from NHS hospital sites which it can't.
Do you still think that NHS hospitals can ban anything they want to, idiot?

Report this post »

spoorsjone says...
7:49pm Wed 17 Oct 12

as far as i'm concerned smoking should be banned everywhere,to save idiots from themselves,and hospitals can ban people from smoking because they are trying to save people from themselves, if you still want to kill your self a gun is quicker and more effective!!!

Report this post »

spoorsjone says...
7:49pm Wed 17 Oct 12

as far as i'm concerned smoking should be banned everywhere,to save idiots from themselves,and hospitals can ban people from smoking because they are trying to save people from themselves, if you still want to kill your self a gun is quicker and more effective!!!

Report this post »

chas says...
7:52pm Wed 17 Oct 12

Whether smoking is harmful or not is not the issue. The issue is if smoking can be banned from NHS hospital sites which it can't.
Do you still think that NHS hospitals can ban anything they want to, idiot?
Would you also like to ban alcohol and fast foods as they are also big killers?

Report this post »

spoorsjone says...
9:17pm Wed 17 Oct 12

yes ,brilliant idea,if people didn't smoke, drink to much and ate properly,then the hospitals would be less busy,instead they are run of their feet looking after selfish people who refuse to look after their own health.

Report this post »

chas says...
9:21pm Wed 17 Oct 12

You also want food and drink banned in NHS hospital sites so that patients die from hunger and thirst. What a nice bloke you are, NOT.

Report this post »

spoorsjone says...
9:25pm Wed 17 Oct 12

The hospitals and other public buildings are well within their to ban any sort of behaviour why can't you get it through your thick head ,just try standing on hospital grounds and smoking and you'll probably tell the magistrate he can't fine you either.

Report this post »

chas says...
9:39pm Wed 17 Oct 12

spoorsjone. Can't you get it through your thick head that NHS hospitals cannot fine or physically eject anybody for smoking?
You must be really sick if you think that NHS hospitals can ban anything, including food and drink!

Report this post »

spoorsjone says...
9:42pm Wed 17 Oct 12

You think hospitals sell alcohol and fast food? did you not read what i said about chumps like you think you should be able to wreck their health,with smoking ,drinking alcohol or whatever and doctors have nothink better to do than run after selfish people who refuse to look after themselves. Look while people like you are campaigning for the right to smoke where they like such as hospital doorways at the other end of the hospital people are gasping their last through smoking don't you see how stupid that is!!! Go to your nearest hospital and ask to visit people dying through the effects of smoking, probably because you are so stupid, it will have no effect and you'll still carry on moaning about where you can smoke won't you.

Report this post »

chas says...
9:53pm Wed 17 Oct 12

I didn't say that hospitals sold alcohol, but they do sell unhealthy food. When you go to hospital will you tell them that you want food and drink banned?
NHS hospitals cannot fine or physically eject anybody for smoking in their open grounds. FACT.

Report this post »

robbithesmoggie says...
11:35pm Wed 17 Oct 12

Chas, nobody has said hospitals can fine people for smoking. They can ask you to leave if you dont obey their rules.

On the other hand, we're all agreed that you are an idiot.

Report this post »

chas says...
8:25am Thu 18 Oct 12

What can the hospital do if somebody does not stop smoking, idiot? NOTHING!

Report this post »

mrvunderbar says...
10:26am Thu 18 Oct 12

spoorsjone - try to go a week or in your case just one day, refraining from judging those who do not measure-up to your high standards. It may give you a little insight into how difficult it is to quit something that is damaging your to your health.

Report this post »

spoorsjone says...
10:46am Thu 18 Oct 12

mrvunderbar, so you agree smoking is damaging for your health please inform Chas because he can't bring himself to admit that fact,yes i do have high standards, because i care about health,prehaps you would like to inform us what people think about when they begin to light up a piece of paper wrapped around dried leaves setting it on fire and then inhaling the smoke? if you have problems quitting get help don't go on about smokers rights like Chas.

Report this post »

chas says...
10:52am Thu 18 Oct 12

Even the moggie admits that the hospital cannot fine anybody for smoking in their open grounds, and if it tries to physically eject somebody they would be in court for assault. So smoking cannot be banned from the hospital grounds.

Report this post »

robbithesmoggie says...
11:15am Thu 18 Oct 12

Chas, you are so stupid that you can't see that nobody has suggested that hospitals can fine people smoking on their grounds.

However, you are totally wrong about them ejecting people. If someone refuses to abide by their rules they effectively lose permission to be there, and can be treated like a tresspasser and ejected. Obviously they can only use reasonable force, and would probably be safest calling the police to assist and prevent a breach of the peace or any assault. But they do have the right to eject people who refuse to abide by their rules.

Naturally, this will all be too much for you to understand, but has essentially been the message from this article and the contributions from people who are not as stupid as you. (And let's face it, that is 100% of the North East population. I can't comment on where you appear on the stupidity spectrum for Suffolk, but I suspect you are their biggest idiot by quite a long way)

Report this post »

chas says...
11:26am Thu 18 Oct 12

Moggie. The police cannot do a thing because it is not against the law to smoke in open publc places. Why are so thick to understand this?
Provided the person smoking politely tells the staff that they intend to carry on smoking there is nothing the staff can do.

Report this post »

robbithesmoggie says...
12:43pm Thu 18 Oct 12

Chas. Where is your proof that you understand the law enough to make this statement?

You've proved beyond all doubt that you are as thick as two short planks.

Quote me a proper legal opinion that says that a landowner cannot eject from their land someone who refuses to abide by their rules, and refuses to leave when asked to do so.

Don't use a desperate, capitalised, claim that they are public, because that's not relevant. (nobody is claiming that the national law applies, but you still feel compelled to argue about that because you're stupid)

I can't wait for the outpouring of idiocy that this will bring from you. Why not invite Soapy and the rest of your cult along? This is like shooting really stupid fish in a barrel. At least Soapy would bring a fresh idiotic perspective.

Report this post »

frankyboy says...
12:54pm Thu 18 Oct 12

I suspect that 'chas' is not quite the 'idiot' that many people have suggested.
The smoking ban applies only to enclosed public places and the workplace, not to open grounds. I'm sure the hospital are well within their rights to introduce a smoking ban on all hospital grounds, but the enforcement of such a ban is the difficult bit.
Can smokers be physically ejected? I'm not sure but even if they can be what would they do to a cancer patient stood outside with drip attached (as described above) smoking a cigarette? If that patient refuses to stop smoking, what could the hospital reasonably do?
Rather than Darcy Brown strutting around like a Nazi, forcing people to do what he wants, he should provide smoking shelters (away from the main entrance) so that smokers can indulge in their legal habit, with no inconvenience to others.
The NHS does not face a financial cost from smoking, it makes a huge profit from smoking. We all know the tax income is far, far higher than the cost of treating smoking-related illness.
I'm a non-smoker, and always have been.

Report this post »

chas says...
12:58pm Thu 18 Oct 12

Thicko. Why do you think that the hospitals has never fined or eveicted anybody for smoking?
Because it is not illegal to smoke in PUBLIC places.

Report this post »

chas says...
1:01pm Thu 18 Oct 12

My last comment was directed to the moggie. Not you frankyboy.

Report this post »

spoorsjone says...
1:06pm Thu 18 Oct 12

The government is making a lot of money from tax on smoking because they raised it to try and deter people from smoking it's not an excuse to carry on smoking as some smokers put forward,as for stopping people smoking in the open air,in Durham city the prince bishops shopping centre has no roof but smoking is banned there.

Report this post »

mrvunderbar says...
1:10pm Thu 18 Oct 12

Chas - smoking is bad for your health.
spoorsjone - I haven't a clue what people think when they light-up a cigarette. I haven't smoked for 20yrs so I can't comment personally either.
Unfortunately, life is not a level playing field and many of us have poor health (mental & physical). To suggest that those addicted to things that damage their health should just stop not only shows lack of compassion but also ignorance.

Report this post »

chas says...
1:13pm Thu 18 Oct 12

spoorsjone. I think that you will find that shopping centres are usually privately own.

Report this post »

chas says...
1:14pm Thu 18 Oct 12

The moggie says 'many of us have poor health (mental & physical)'. I'm glad that you admit it.

Report this post »

frankyboy says...
1:34pm Thu 18 Oct 12

I made the comment about tax simply to expose the deliberately misleading comments made by successive governments and the NHS that smoking-related diseases cost the taxpayer £xx million per year. It does cost the taxpayer of course, but the much higher tax income from smokers never seems to be mentioned.

Report this post »

chas says...
1:38pm Thu 18 Oct 12

frankyboy. If everybody stopped smoking where would the Government get the lost revenue from?

Report this post »

spoorsjone says...
1:53pm Thu 18 Oct 12

Chas if nobody smoked the n.h.s. wouldn't need to spend so much on treating smokers,and as i've mentioned before on here they raised the tax to try and deter smokers, but as it does't work on everybody the money comes in handy to pay for treating people with smoking related illnesses not the other way round they are not taxing smokers as a form of bullying, they are try to push people into trying harder to give up ,and put of people from starting.

Report this post »

chas says...
1:59pm Thu 18 Oct 12

spoorjone. The cost of treating so called smoking related illnesses is only a fraction of the revenue raised from smokers.
This isn't the issue. The issue is that NHS hospitals cannot in any way stop people from smoking in their open areas.

Report this post »

frankyboy says...
2:18pm Thu 18 Oct 12

chas wrote:
frankyboy. If everybody stopped smoking where would the Government get the lost revenue from?
Exactly. This is why they won't ban it, they'd lose too much tax income that the public would then have to pay in other ways (or see services cut further).
Surely if the evidence is so certain then a responsible government would ban it and smokers over the age of 18 could get cigarettes on prescription as part of a treatment programme to help them stop. This would cost too much, so it won't happen, and smokers are taxed to the hilt whilst treat like second-class citizens. I'm happy enough with the tax policy, but not with the way smokers are treated socially.

Report this post »

robbithesmoggie says...
2:26pm Thu 18 Oct 12

Chas "The issue is that NHS hospitals cannot in any way stop people from smoking in their open areas"

No, the issue is that you're an idiot from a cult, you live in Suffolk and you never seem able to back up your claims or, as is the case here, even understand the issue.

I challenged you to "Quote me a proper legal opinion that says that a landowner cannot eject from their land someone who refuses to abide by their rules, and refuses to leave when asked to do so."

You clearly can't, so why persist with your stupid line of argument that you can't back up?

Report this post »

chas says...
2:31pm Thu 18 Oct 12

Moggie. The issue is 'Hospitals get tough on smokers'.

Why hasn't the hospital fined or ejected anybody for smoking? Because they can't.
Only an idiot like you cannot understand that.
I can quite understand that you have mental problems.

Report this post »

robbithesmoggie says...
2:50pm Thu 18 Oct 12

Chas, if you're right you should find no problem in finding the legal opinion that backs you up.

But you can't.

Report this post »

chas says...
2:56pm Thu 18 Oct 12

Moggie. Why do you think that other NHS hospitals have stopped trying to ban smoking and erected smoking shelters? Because they can't stop people smoking in their open grounds.
Have you got a legal opinion stating that public companies can ban smoking in open public areas?

Report this post »

spoorsjone says...
2:59pm Thu 18 Oct 12

Chas as i've said before they put the tax up to put you of smoking because you are inhaling toxic fumes that are killing you, but while people are still smoking why shouldn't they make money out of you,by the way you talk about smokers rights how do you think people who are visiting people who are dying with a smoking related illness feel walking past somebody like you exercising their" right" to smoke in a public place or is it only smokers who have rights.

Report this post »

spoorsjone says...
2:59pm Thu 18 Oct 12

Chas as i've said before they put the tax up to put you of smoking because you are inhaling toxic fumes that are killing you, but while people are still smoking why shouldn't they make money out of you,by the way you talk about smokers rights how do you think people who are visiting people who are dying with a smoking related illness feel walking past somebody like you exercising their" right" to smoke in a public place or is it only smokers who have rights.

Report this post »

robbithesmoggie says...
3:01pm Thu 18 Oct 12

Chas
"The issue is 'Hospitals get tough on smokers'."

"Hospitals get tough on smokers" is the headline, probably written by a journalist at the Echo, or possibly by the PR person in the Trust who wrote the press release.

There is no mention at all of fines - and only you keeps talking about that particular non-issue.

There is not even any mention of evicting people from the grounds (even though they could bring in a rule and do this if they wanted).

All they are proposing to do is put up signs and encourage staff to ask people to stop smoking in the grounds or go off site to smoke.

Tell us what it is about THIS that you think they can't do.

Report this post »

robbithesmoggie says...
3:04pm Thu 18 Oct 12

Chas, you are claiming they can't do something, but you can't prove that you're right.

You've also proved you're an idiot.

It isn't my job to prove they can, you are claiming they can't, so prove it. Or shove off and pollute Ipswich papers instead.

Report this post »

chas says...
3:05pm Thu 18 Oct 12

Moggie said 'All they are proposing to do is put up signs and encourage staff to ask people to stop smoking in the grounds or go off site to smoke'.
Exactly. All they can do is ASK.

Report this post »

chas says...
3:09pm Thu 18 Oct 12

Moggie. Have you read the law about banning smoking in substantially enclosed PUBLIC places?

Report this post »

robbithesmoggie says...
6:19pm Thu 18 Oct 12

Chas, they can ask, and they can try to persuade.

Most reasonable people will react positively.

If they want to, they can ask people who refuse to stop to leave the grounds.

This is all they are proposing at the moment. No mention of fines, that's just your imagination.

If they want to, they can insist people who refuse to stop, and refuse to leave, get off their grounds.

Finally, if they want to, they can use reasonable force to make the person leave the grounds. They'd be well advised to ask the police to help them do this, as anyone so thick and objectionable is probably a member of your cult.

Your cult recently suggested that people shot members of ASH staff in the head as they left work. I don't think you are personally capable of operating one of the sniper rifles they suggested, but you clearly have some members who are psychotic, as well as a large number of idiots.

Where's Soapy?

Report this post »

robbithesmoggie says...
6:24pm Thu 18 Oct 12

"frankyboy says...

I suspect that 'chas' is not quite the 'idiot' that many people have suggested"

You need to read the thread again franky.

With all the time he spends talking rubbish on here, Ipswich is missing its village idiot.

Report this post »

BeverleyWM says...
6:13am Fri 19 Oct 12

I have never known posts and comments go on for this long on this site so smoking is still a subject that get's people annoyed.

I have never been a smoker but have helped people stop smoking for 13 years now. If a person wants to stop smoking that is a good start but if it is continuosly rammed down their throats they won't stop no matter who tells them they need to. It could even be the Grim Reaper.

People know it seriously damages their health but where is the freedom of choice? If a person wants to stop smoking I am there to encourage and support them all of the way. There are lots of products to help a person stop but they need to want to stop.

Smoking on hospital grounds should be stopped I agree but I also think that when people are at their lowest maybe visiting a loved one sometimes a cigarette makes them feel better (they think)

If anyone wants to stop smoking there are loads of services they can access in their local community or gp surgery.

Report this post »

drainman says...
6:33am Fri 19 Oct 12

spoorsjone wrote:
as far as i'm concerned smoking should be banned everywhere,to save idiots from themselves,and hospitals can ban people from smoking because they are trying to save people from themselves, if you still want to kill your self a gun is quicker and more effective!!!
What gives you the right to take away someones choices? Smoking is legal. fair enough it very bad for someone buts its their option. Would you bad fatty food or extreme sports? If it wasn't making a vast amount of cash for the governent they would ban it of course, very much the same as alcohol i suppose. Did anyone know that the manufacturing cost in making 1000 cigerettes was 98 pence in 2001 and this was considered too high and resulted Rothmans moving its sites to Poland. 98 pence!!!!

Report this post »

chas says...
8:20am Fri 19 Oct 12

moggie. At long last it has got through your thick skull that the hospital cannot ban smoking in their grouunds, but can only ask people to stop. Please tell me what the police can do when it is not illegal to smoke in open public places?

Report this post »

robbithesmoggie says...
10:33am Fri 19 Oct 12

Chas, you've been told over and over about why the hospital trust can insist that people don't smoke on its grounds, and what they can do if people don't cooperate. You have failed to provide ANY legal evidence that they can't do what people have told you.

You are too thick to understand.

You spend a lot of time on here displaying your ignorance. Who fills in for you as Ipswich's village idiot while you're here?

Report this post »

chas says...
10:41am Fri 19 Oct 12

Moggie. Stop being an idiot.
You have said YOURSELF that the hospital can only ask people not to smoke. You have said that the hospital can call the police, but what can the police do when it is not against the law.
Please read the law on the smoking ban and tell me where it states that smoking is banned in open public places.

Report this post »

robbithesmoggie says...
12:14pm Fri 19 Oct 12

Chas, did you not understand that I also said that the hospital can ask people to leave the grounds if they refuse to abide by their rules?

I've said it a lot.

If people refuse to abide by the rules, and refuse to leave, the staff are entitled to regard them as trespassers (although it is publicly owned land, people don't have a right to be there, they are there by permission)

The police, if called, will help the trust remove the person as a trespasser, not as someone breaking the smoking ban.

I've tried to make it as simple for you as possible. Sadly, it is impossible for you to understand, but that's because you're stupid rather than because I'm wrong.

It is irrelevant whether or not smoking is banned in open spaces by a national law, landowners like NHS trusts are allowed to make rules governing the activities of people entering the land they control.

Only an idiot couldn't understand this.

Report this post »

chas says...
12:39pm Fri 19 Oct 12

moggie. When are you going to quit make a complete idiot of yourself?
The hospital can ASK people to leave their grounds for smoking, but cannot force them.
How on earth can anybody be tresspassing on PUBLIC land? Do you ask for permission to enter every public place? STOP being an idiot.
When will it get through your thick skull that NHS hospitals cannot make an rule they like?.

Report this post »

chas says...
12:43pm Fri 19 Oct 12

moggie. When are you going to quit make a complete idiot of yourself?
The hospital can ASK people to leave their grounds for smoking, but cannot force them.
How on earth can anybody be tresspassing on PUBLIC land? Do you ask for permission to enter every public place? STOP being an idiot.
When will it get through your thick skull that NHS hospitals cannot make an rule they like?.

Report this post »

robbithesmoggie says...
12:52pm Fri 19 Oct 12

Chas, you are too thick to understand.

You are from a pro-tobacco cult whose members spread nonsense about smoking. They've clearly brainwashed away any intellect that you may once have possessed.

You believe that smoking isn't linked to cot death/SIDS, despite the medical profession understanding that there is a strong link.

You supported another member of your cult on another discussion when they said that passive smoking was beneficial to children.

I can't be bothered to look up other instances of your idiocy.

But, in summary:
1 You are wrong, and
2 You are an idiot

Report this post »

chas says...
1:00pm Fri 19 Oct 12

moggie. You said YOURSELF that the hospital can only ask people to leave the grounds if they are smoking. They cannot enforce it.
You say that people are tresspassing if they enter a PUBLIC place without permission.
What a complete plonker!

Report this post »

robbithesmoggie says...
6:35pm Fri 19 Oct 12

Chas
I've studied law, you are from a cult.

You believe that smoking isn't linked to SIDS.

You support the belief that exposure to cigarette smoke is beneficial to young children.

Report this post »

chas says...
7:16pm Fri 19 Oct 12

If you really did study law then you are a massive failure.
You admit that the hospital can only ASK people to leave and you say that people need permission to enter a PUBLIC place.
YOU HAVE NO IDEA OF THE LAW!
You are a fraud and a plonker.

Report this post »

click2find

About cookies

We want you to enjoy your visit to our website. That's why we use cookies to enhance your experience. By staying on our website you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more about the cookies we use.

I agree