Police officer knocked off bicycle in Darlington (From Darlington and Stockton Times)
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Police officer knocked off bicycle in Darlington
10:40am Thursday 27th September 2012 in News
A POLICE sergeant is in hospital with a suspected broken arm after being knocked off his bicycle as he rode to work this morning.
The incident took place at about 7.50am, in Abbey Road, Darlington.
A spokeswoman for Darlington police said the officer is being assessed at Darlington Memorial Hospital More later.
Comments(102)
miketually
says...
5:29pm Thu 27 Sep 12
Too many of these in town at the moment. Keep safe everyone.
MSG
says...
6:19pm Thu 27 Sep 12
Echo trying to make the incident more serious!!
judygone
says...
7:26pm Thu 27 Sep 12
MSG wrote:Makes no difference weather he is on his way to work or not . He is a police officer.
I hope he is okay, however he is not a Police officer on his way to work. Only when he arrives and clocks on.
Echo trying to make the incident more serious!!
Assurance
says...
8:07pm Thu 27 Sep 12
As is the case with military service personnel and any other professions that swear an oath of duty.
Do you really expect a policeman to blindly cycle on by whilst you are bleeding to death, because he was not 'on shift' ??
johnny_p
says...
8:31pm Thu 27 Sep 12
miketually wrote:Too many what? Bicycles or Police officers? Police Officers riding bicycles? Confused!
I hope the officer makes a full recovery.
Too many of these in town at the moment. Keep safe everyone.
johnny_p
says...
8:35pm Thu 27 Sep 12
Homshaw1
says...
9:31pm Thu 27 Sep 12
In some places such as Coniscliffe Road the cycle lane is blocked every few yards by parked cars making it more dangerous than if it wasn't there
Some motorists have a very aggressive attitude towards cyclists
I love riding my bike but you do risk life and limb
ohmydays
says...
9:54pm Thu 27 Sep 12
And jonny_p he wasn't wearing a helmet !
miketually
says...
10:27pm Thu 27 Sep 12
People on bicycles being hit by people in cars.
"And jonny_p he wasn't wearing a helmet !"
If only he had been, then the car wouldn't have hit him and his arm wouldn't be broken.
MST1975
says...
10:28pm Thu 27 Sep 12
Yes the council have spent lots of money on cycle paths, and bus lanes, but as with everything else this council does is pointless and ill thought out.
Hope the blokes ok though. Should of worn a helmet as all good bobbies do
miketually
says...
11:12pm Thu 27 Sep 12
And yet, in crashes leading to a serious injury, drivers are solely responsible in about 60%-75% of all cases, and riders solely at fault 17%-25% of the time.
miketually
says...
11:14pm Thu 27 Sep 12
To stop him breaking his arm?
johnny_p
says...
5:00am Fri 28 Sep 12
ohmydays wrote:You seem to know all the fact already- maybe you could lead the police investigation?
How do you know the driver was aggressive ?
And jonny_p he wasn't wearing a helmet !
ohmydays
says...
7:00am Fri 28 Sep 12
Some people are quick to judge without knowing all the facts, and I have to say if he wasn't a police officer would the
story be in the echo all ?
Unfortunately accidents do happen and there is more to the story than the echo is making out.
And it does say a suspected broken arm ...
drainman
says...
7:38am Fri 28 Sep 12
calumannabel
says...
8:30am Fri 28 Sep 12
judygone wrote:Bit like leaves on the line - wrong kind of whether !
MSG wrote:Makes no difference weather he is on his way to work or not . He is a police officer.
I hope he is okay, however he is not a Police officer on his way to work. Only when he arrives and clocks on.
Echo trying to make the incident more serious!!
miketually
says...
8:42am Fri 28 Sep 12
Because they have magical, car-repelling properties?
Skallywagg
says...
10:25am Fri 28 Sep 12
rachey12
says...
11:46am Fri 28 Sep 12
I hope he is okay, however he is not a Police officer on his way to work. Only when he arrives and clocks on.
Echo trying to make the incident more serious!!
whether he is on way to work or at work he is still a police officer!!
its like saying a nurse/doctor aint one while there not at work!!! still here to help you nmw!! respect police a lot & hope he makes a speedy recovery..
the-big-yin
says...
12:44pm Fri 28 Sep 12
small child knocked off his bike the other day....that did not make the news...so why has this?
Homshaw1
says...
1:21pm Fri 28 Sep 12
the-big-yin wrote:There is an important issue mixed up in the story but some of the posts are diverting attention from it.
yawn........this is not a story...... small child knocked off his bike the other day....that did not make the news...so why has this?
Cycling is healthy, fun, cost effective and environmentally friendly but its got to be done in a safe environment and safe routes need to be put in place.
Would I allow a child to use cycle lanes in Darlington? No
Should they be able to? Yes
Big Nic
says...
2:08pm Fri 28 Sep 12
Phil Thornberry
says...
2:42pm Fri 28 Sep 12
I cycle down North road and can someone please tell me the best way of not getting killed at the new traffic lights out side B&Q. Going into town I am in the inside lane but just past the post office this then is a left turn so I move out as I want to go straight on but the motorists and busses wont let me in, it’s the same at the next lights outside the BP garage.
When all we needed was for the riverside cycle path to run under the £5 note bridge and down the quite valley street and then we would have a proper cycle way into town.
johnny_p
says...
4:26pm Fri 28 Sep 12
Or perhaps car drivers should be much more careful....?
wordnerd
says...
5:01pm Fri 28 Sep 12
Of course wearing a helmet won't prevent a broken arm. But it will improve your odds if you do come a cropper. It's just sensible.
Daza
says...
9:09pm Fri 28 Sep 12
Dean M wrote:YAWN!
I hope it wasn't an expensive bike.
miketually
says...
7:01am Sat 29 Sep 12
I can ride to Morrison's at Morton Park or visit my parents without touching a main road.
I can almost get into town safely, provided I'm willing to take a bit of a detour along the Eastern Transport Corridor. If only the council had managed to get the bridge over the railway line by Darlington College so I didn't have to assertively take the centre of the lane to prevent idiots overtaking on the brow of the hill...
It's so depressing that so much money was spent on "individual travel planning", advertising and branded shopping bags and water bottles, instead of on hard infrastructure.
tomtopper
says...
12:30pm Sat 29 Sep 12
Cyclists always seem to be complaining, yet don't give a second thought about breaching the highway code when it suits.. And they know fine well what congestion and snarl ups await them in city centres.. Bicycles can be quite a menace on the road... There's also the fact of too much traffic on the road, with many switched off car drivers.. Frustration plays a big part in most of these incidents...
marilyn49
says...
5:31pm Sat 29 Sep 12
johnny_p
says...
5:46pm Sat 29 Sep 12
tomtopper wrote:And of course other road users don't "breach the Highway Code" do they? So why are cyclists seen as "a menace" (your words) on the roads? Can you put a figure to the number of people killed on the roads by these "menacing cyclists"? Very few if any I suspect, certainly a negligible amount compared to the amount of people killed and seriously injured every year in motor vehicles.
Age old argument, that'll continue forever more..
Cyclists always seem to be complaining, yet don't give a second thought about breaching the highway code when it suits.. And they know fine well what congestion and snarl ups await them in city centres.. Bicycles can be quite a menace on the road... There's also the fact of too much traffic on the road, with many switched off car drivers.. Frustration plays a big part in most of these incidents...
Also- if "there's too much traffic on the road" aren't cyclist helping reduce that figure by using their bikes instead of their cars?
If one good thing comes out of this accident it may be that the Police will start viewing the aggressive attitudes of drivers towards cyclists more seriously. By the way- I now keep a video camera running constantly when I'm on the road now. It will come in very handy in court the next time I'm abused or driven into by a careless idiot.
miketually
says...
6:23pm Sat 29 Sep 12
In 2011, cyclists killed 2 pedestrians, injured 99 seriously & caused 268 slight injuries. Available from http://www.dft.gov.u
k/statistics/release
s/reported-road-casu
alties-great-britain
-annual-report-2011/
There's just no comparison when compared to deaths caused by cars, especially if we factor in longer-term health issues.
Scarily, "failure to look properly" was the cause of 42% of crashes reported to the police. Certainly, that was the cause of the driver hitting me on my bike last year.
mark.wilkinson
says...
7:13pm Sat 29 Sep 12
johnny_p
says...
7:39pm Sat 29 Sep 12
mark.wilkinson wrote:Good try at an inflammatory comment. Of course you know road tax was abolished in 1936 by Winston Churchill who thought it was giving car drivers moral ownership of the roads. What you do pay is Vehicle Excise Duty which is a tax on the emissions from your car. The roads are funded by the general taxpayer- so everyone working pays for the roads and that includes car drivers, pedestrians and yes, cyclists. I can also assure you that the vast majority of roads in Britain were built long before the car was even thought of.
Cyclists should have to wear helmets and hi-viz clothing by law. They should also pay road tax.
Perhaps cars should be painted fluorescent green or pink and be fitted with flashing lights. They should also have their speed electronically limited to 5 mph in towns and cities and 20 mph on other roads. With car drivers being forced to wear motorcycle helmets too, I can guarantee that thousands of lives would be saved every year.
fishi
says...
11:35pm Sat 29 Sep 12
wordnerd
says...
2:34am Sun 30 Sep 12
miketually
says...
10:04am Sun 30 Sep 12
It did run for a while before Road Tax was mentioned though, which is pretty good.
miketually
says...
10:07am Sun 30 Sep 12
tomtopper
says...
4:11pm Sun 30 Sep 12
johnny_p wrote:Other road users do breach the highway code, didn't you know that? However, They quite rarely drive the wrong way down one way streets, or drive across pedestrian crossings with the pedestrians, or drive on the footpath, and through red lights etc, etc.
tomtopper wrote:And of course other road users don't "breach the Highway Code" do they? So why are cyclists seen as "a menace" (your words) on the roads? Can you put a figure to the number of people killed on the roads by these "menacing cyclists"? Very few if any I suspect, certainly a negligible amount compared to the amount of people killed and seriously injured every year in motor vehicles.
Age old argument, that'll continue forever more..
Cyclists always seem to be complaining, yet don't give a second thought about breaching the highway code when it suits.. And they know fine well what congestion and snarl ups await them in city centres.. Bicycles can be quite a menace on the road... There's also the fact of too much traffic on the road, with many switched off car drivers.. Frustration plays a big part in most of these incidents...
Also- if "there's too much traffic on the road" aren't cyclist helping reduce that figure by using their bikes instead of their cars?
If one good thing comes out of this accident it may be that the Police will start viewing the aggressive attitudes of drivers towards cyclists more seriously. By the way- I now keep a video camera running constantly when I'm on the road now. It will come in very handy in court the next time I'm abused or driven into by a careless idiot.
Why are cyclists seen as a menace? Well I did say 'they can be' ..Not that all are.. It's usually the one's with the same 'holier than thou' attitude as yourself, that are..
Road deaths? A lot more by motorists, as there's generally a **** sight more of them on the road, doing much longer and faster journeys, and, as I clearly stated before, ( which you clearly overlooked).. There are many switched off drivers on the road, and too much traffic.. (and do you seriously think the small percentage who use their cycles, is the answer to today's congestion? come on).. Cyclists can cause quite a bit damage though, and just simply cycle off a lot of the time...
Motorists are insured and require a licence which is only gained by a test of competence (mediocre, in my opinion).. Vehicles are registered, display a plate and their drivers are traceable and accountable for any damage they cause.. Unlike cyclists..
The 'menace' cyclists out there are the one's who think they're whiter then white, and ride around with a headcam on, almost looking for a situation, caused, often accidentally (but not always) by a motorist, whilst ignoring their own misdemeanours...
Why go into a congested sprawl on a cycle, and then shout about getting cut up etc, when you knew that would most likely occur in the first place?
miketually
says...
7:34pm Sun 30 Sep 12
Compulsory testing and insurance for motorists was brought in for a reason. Despite that, they still kill more people than terrorists.
There are some absolutely terrible cyclists out there, but they mostly put themselves at risk.
miketually
says...
7:50pm Sun 30 Sep 12
Just found this http://lcc.org.uk/ar
ticles/boris-johnson
-retracts-claim-that
-two-thirds-of-cycli
sts-killed-and-injur
ed-broke-the-law which shows that only 5% of deaths or serious injuries of cyclists were caused by the cyclist breaking the law.
miketually
says...
7:53pm Sun 30 Sep 12
Oh, and I see cars doing all of these pretty much every day.
Apart from maybe "drive across pedestrian crossings with the pedestrians" because I've just realised what you meant by that. But all the rest.
johnny_p
says...
1:34am Mon 1 Oct 12
tomtopper wrote:You just don't like cyclists do you? You feel that somehow you have superior rights on the road, but I can assure you you don't. Bear in mind that if you are involved in an accident with a cyclist or pedestrian they will come off far worse, so perhaps start being more careful. You're a dying breed of motorists who need to learn the law. I guess in the forty plus age range with a ever expanding midriff, and someone who passed their test in the days when you only needed a few lessons? Regardless- you need to start thinking about what you're doing when driving and keep your personal little anger issues to yourself.
johnny_p wrote:Other road users do breach the highway code, didn't you know that? However, They quite rarely drive the wrong way down one way streets, or drive across pedestrian crossings with the pedestrians, or drive on the footpath, and through red lights etc, etc.
tomtopper wrote:And of course other road users don't "breach the Highway Code" do they? So why are cyclists seen as "a menace" (your words) on the roads? Can you put a figure to the number of people killed on the roads by these "menacing cyclists"? Very few if any I suspect, certainly a negligible amount compared to the amount of people killed and seriously injured every year in motor vehicles.
Age old argument, that'll continue forever more..
Cyclists always seem to be complaining, yet don't give a second thought about breaching the highway code when it suits.. And they know fine well what congestion and snarl ups await them in city centres.. Bicycles can be quite a menace on the road... There's also the fact of too much traffic on the road, with many switched off car drivers.. Frustration plays a big part in most of these incidents...
Also- if "there's too much traffic on the road" aren't cyclist helping reduce that figure by using their bikes instead of their cars?
If one good thing comes out of this accident it may be that the Police will start viewing the aggressive attitudes of drivers towards cyclists more seriously. By the way- I now keep a video camera running constantly when I'm on the road now. It will come in very handy in court the next time I'm abused or driven into by a careless idiot.
Why are cyclists seen as a menace? Well I did say 'they can be' ..Not that all are.. It's usually the one's with the same 'holier than thou' attitude as yourself, that are..
Road deaths? A lot more by motorists, as there's generally a **** sight more of them on the road, doing much longer and faster journeys, and, as I clearly stated before, ( which you clearly overlooked).. There are many switched off drivers on the road, and too much traffic.. (and do you seriously think the small percentage who use their cycles, is the answer to today's congestion? come on).. Cyclists can cause quite a bit damage though, and just simply cycle off a lot of the time...
Motorists are insured and require a licence which is only gained by a test of competence (mediocre, in my opinion).. Vehicles are registered, display a plate and their drivers are traceable and accountable for any damage they cause.. Unlike cyclists..
The 'menace' cyclists out there are the one's who think they're whiter then white, and ride around with a headcam on, almost looking for a situation, caused, often accidentally (but not always) by a motorist, whilst ignoring their own misdemeanours...
Why go into a congested sprawl on a cycle, and then shout about getting cut up etc, when you knew that would most likely occur in the first place?
Like many cyclists now I keep a camera running when I'm out now and will not hesitate to show the film footage to the Police next time I'm hit, or abused by a motorist. Please remember what these comments are based on- not whether or not "cyclists can use the roads" but a police officer who was hit by a vehicle.
BMD
says...
6:11am Mon 1 Oct 12
miketually
says...
9:31am Mon 1 Oct 12
BMD wrote:Because training motorists has been really successful?
After the millions of pounds thrown at cycle lanes and people making a healthy living from there design and installation, it seems that the incident rate has not decreased! Therefore is it time to abandon anymore construction of cycle lanes and revert back to training of cyclists?
How much training would I have needed to stop the gentleman who "didn't see me" failing to give way to me at a roundabout and so driving into me?
I was doing everything correctly this morning when a Phase Cabling Solutions van overtook me on the very narrow Haughton Road bridge.
Perhaps the cycle lanes here are not adequate? In countries with correctly constructed infrastructure there's not anywhere near the same rate of accidents, despite a lack of training (and helmets).
With proper infrastructure, I'd not have been on that roundabout or on the road over that bridge.
What we see on this thread is typical victim-blaming.
miketually
says...
9:34am Mon 1 Oct 12
rnecho.co.uk/news/99
57892.Elderly_driver
_hits_four_pedestria
ns/?ref=la
BMD
says...
10:01am Mon 1 Oct 12
You obviously failed to use proper judgement regarding your own safety when cycling over Haughton road bridge. Personally I would have dismounted and walked my cycle on the pavement.
Your argument is very weak
miketually
says...
10:27am Mon 1 Oct 12
As for Haughton Road bridge, it's not possible or safe to wheel a bicycle on the pavement on a morning, as the pavement is narrow and filled with Darlington College students.
I was cycling exactly where I should be when the (trained) driver behind performed a dangerous manoeuvre. Training for me would not have prevented this and training for the driver obviously didn't either.
Tomorrow morning, I will take the centre of the lane much earlier to prevent a recurrence.
Your argument is very weak.
BMD
says...
1:43pm Mon 1 Oct 12
Personally I would set off earlier before the students are out of bed and walk my cycle on the footpath. I believe life is precious and your vanity could get you killed, please use a bit of common sense and don’t put your life in danger to prove a 2 minute headline in the Northern Echo (because only your immediate family will care).
miketually
says...
2:37pm Mon 1 Oct 12
If I'm in the centre of the lane, they'd have to deliberately ride into the back of me, which is not impossible but is less likely.
Tomorrow's actions are exactly what cyclists are trained to do. It's known as the primary position; Google it - there's a good article on British Cycling's website called "Bitesize Bikeability: Part 4: On-Road Positioning".
Previously, you were advocating more training for cyclists, yet now you think that the training cyclists would be given is dangerous.
BMD
says...
3:40pm Mon 1 Oct 12
An article on the British Cycling web-site is not necessary the safest option, all options must be explored for your own safety, after all a piece of paper will not protect you from an over eager motorist.
miketually
says...
5:15pm Mon 1 Oct 12
But it is what cyclists would be taught to do during Bikability training, which is the official DfT cycle training scheme (http://www.dft.gov.
uk/bikeability/). this scheme is supported by both RoSPA and Road Safety GB.
It is also what is recommended in John Franklin's book "Cyclecraft" (http://www.cyclecra
ft.co.uk/), which is recommended reading for Bikability and is recommended by RoSPA.
Earlier, you called for cyclists to be given training, to make them safer, yet you think carrying out the manoeuvre which is part of the training backed by the DfT, RoSPA, Road Safety GB, Sustrans and British Cycling would be unsafe.
Your argument is (still) very weak. Or you're a troll.
tomtopper
says...
11:52pm Mon 1 Oct 12
johnny_p wrote:I don't like arrogant jumped up idiot cyclists like yourself... You're an Idiot who sounds like you shouldn't be nowhere near a road.. Your imbecilic replies amuse me.. I've obviously struck a chord, with my comment about your stupid headcam and childish zeal to prove you're the innocent, upright victim whilst out on the road... pathetic
tomtopper wrote:You just don't like cyclists do you? You feel that somehow you have superior rights on the road, but I can assure you you don't. Bear in mind that if you are involved in an accident with a cyclist or pedestrian they will come off far worse, so perhaps start being more careful. You're a dying breed of motorists who need to learn the law. I guess in the forty plus age range with a ever expanding midriff, and someone who passed their test in the days when you only needed a few lessons? Regardless- you need to start thinking about what you're doing when driving and keep your personal little anger issues to yourself.
johnny_p wrote:Other road users do breach the highway code, didn't you know that? However, They quite rarely drive the wrong way down one way streets, or drive across pedestrian crossings with the pedestrians, or drive on the footpath, and through red lights etc, etc.
tomtopper wrote:And of course other road users don't "breach the Highway Code" do they? So why are cyclists seen as "a menace" (your words) on the roads? Can you put a figure to the number of people killed on the roads by these "menacing cyclists"? Very few if any I suspect, certainly a negligible amount compared to the amount of people killed and seriously injured every year in motor vehicles.
Age old argument, that'll continue forever more..
Cyclists always seem to be complaining, yet don't give a second thought about breaching the highway code when it suits.. And they know fine well what congestion and snarl ups await them in city centres.. Bicycles can be quite a menace on the road... There's also the fact of too much traffic on the road, with many switched off car drivers.. Frustration plays a big part in most of these incidents...
Also- if "there's too much traffic on the road" aren't cyclist helping reduce that figure by using their bikes instead of their cars?
If one good thing comes out of this accident it may be that the Police will start viewing the aggressive attitudes of drivers towards cyclists more seriously. By the way- I now keep a video camera running constantly when I'm on the road now. It will come in very handy in court the next time I'm abused or driven into by a careless idiot.
Why are cyclists seen as a menace? Well I did say 'they can be' ..Not that all are.. It's usually the one's with the same 'holier than thou' attitude as yourself, that are..
Road deaths? A lot more by motorists, as there's generally a **** sight more of them on the road, doing much longer and faster journeys, and, as I clearly stated before, ( which you clearly overlooked).. There are many switched off drivers on the road, and too much traffic.. (and do you seriously think the small percentage who use their cycles, is the answer to today's congestion? come on).. Cyclists can cause quite a bit damage though, and just simply cycle off a lot of the time...
Motorists are insured and require a licence which is only gained by a test of competence (mediocre, in my opinion).. Vehicles are registered, display a plate and their drivers are traceable and accountable for any damage they cause.. Unlike cyclists..
The 'menace' cyclists out there are the one's who think they're whiter then white, and ride around with a headcam on, almost looking for a situation, caused, often accidentally (but not always) by a motorist, whilst ignoring their own misdemeanours...
Why go into a congested sprawl on a cycle, and then shout about getting cut up etc, when you knew that would most likely occur in the first place?
Like many cyclists now I keep a camera running when I'm out now and will not hesitate to show the film footage to the Police next time I'm hit, or abused by a motorist. Please remember what these comments are based on- not whether or not "cyclists can use the roads" but a police officer who was hit by a vehicle.
You should also be thinking who'd come worse off in a collision with, say, an artics blindspot.. And i've forgotton more about motoring, motoring law and road design then you'll ever know... I'm also well beyond my forties and fortunate enough to have a 32inch midriff, exercised by walking and the gym and... yes, cycling on bridleways safely insulated from the madness on the road.. (what that has to do with the argument, I don't know.. Malice I guess...) I've taught people to drive at an advanced level and even wrote books on the subject (google me) I know EXACTLY what i'm doing when I drive..
Are police officers the epitome of perfection? I can assure they're not.. Doesn't matter what his job was.. It's all down to facts surrounding the incident.. Some cyclists can be as bad as some motorists .. How can you not see that?
BMD
says...
5:39am Tue 2 Oct 12
miketually wrote:I am merely pointing out that there is a safer option at the Haughton Road Bridge, by walking your bicycle on the footpath. Obviously you prefer to risk your life and the lives of others; it is quite possible you could be the cause of an accident, with your stubborn attitude. You have never thought of your dependents and how they will struggle if you are killed. For the sake of a 5 minute walk, please take the safest option, quoting web-sites is pointless if you are in a wooden box!
"An article on the British Cycling web-site is not necessary the safest option" But it is what cyclists would be taught to do during Bikability training, which is the official DfT cycle training scheme (http://www.dft.gov. uk/bikeability/). this scheme is supported by both RoSPA and Road Safety GB. It is also what is recommended in John Franklin's book "Cyclecraft" (http://www.cyclecra ft.co.uk/), which is recommended reading for Bikability and is recommended by RoSPA. Earlier, you called for cyclists to be given training, to make them safer, yet you think carrying out the manoeuvre which is part of the training backed by the DfT, RoSPA, Road Safety GB, Sustrans and British Cycling would be unsafe. Your argument is (still) very weak. Or you're a troll.
Your argument is very weak
ianh
says...
10:01am Tue 2 Oct 12
As in most things, there is no definitive right or wrong.
There is plenty of appalling driving out there, as there is inconsiderate cycling.
However the most vulnerable road users, cyclists, motorcylists, horse riders and pedestrians will always come off worst in any accident involving cars/buses/lorries.
Speaking as a driver, bike rider and occasional cyclist, there is a general lacking of appreciation for the vulnerability of the former by the latter.
This is not just about training, with daughters going through their driving tests in recent months and years, a great deal of stress if now put upon hazard awareness. It is often the attitude, "might is right," which often seems to prevail, especially among older drivers.
Equally, cyclists often show a distinct lack of consideration for other road users, riding in large packs to prevent vehicles to pass, even when it would otherwise be entirely safe to do so. This can only lead to frustation and inappropriate overtaking and the resultant risk of collision.
More "risk-aware" and observant driving together with more considerate cycling would however go a long way to reducing the risk for all road users.
miketually
says...
10:14am Tue 2 Oct 12
If you do Google, have a look at the 1 star reviews on Amazon :)
BMD, I'm fully aware of the relative risks of different options. Indeed, I already take a longish detour to make use of an off-road track. On this bridge, I can assure you that taking the centre of the lane is the only safe, sensible, practical option, and is not dangerous.
If I walked every section where taking the lane for my safety 'inconveniences' motorists a little, I'd probably end up walking the whole route.
I say 'inconvenience', but it rarely is, really. It's incredibly rare that the driver I've 'held up' isn't either right in front of me or even behind me, at the next queue of traffic.
miketually
says...
10:19am Tue 2 Oct 12
"riding in large packs to prevent vehicles to pass, even when it would otherwise be entirely safe to do so. This can only lead to frustation and inappropriate overtaking and the resultant risk of collision."
For a group out in the country, this is often the safest approach. If they were in single file, they present a very long overtake which motorists may try to squeeze past. Riding as a group makes them the same as a slow moving tractor, requiring a deliberate but shorter overtake.
ianh
says...
11:59am Tue 2 Oct 12
That would be fine as long they too showed due consideration and moved over when safe to do so.
Otherwise we end up in a vicious circle, ie; frustrated drivers do a dodgy overtake, so cyclists take on ever more defensive riding techniques, resulting in more frustrated drivers......
miketually
says...
12:44pm Tue 2 Oct 12
johnny_p
says...
1:46pm Tue 2 Oct 12
tomtopper wrote:Ouch- anger issues here! I see you're a "writer" who feels that I'm "an Idiot who sounds like you shouldn't be nowhere (sic) near a road". So I googled your book on "Advanced Driving" techniques on the Amazon website.... the good reviews on your book are hardly flooding in are they? A couple of reviewers describe you as being "arrogant and dangerous".
johnny_p wrote:I don't like arrogant jumped up idiot cyclists like yourself... You're an Idiot who sounds like you shouldn't be nowhere near a road.. Your imbecilic replies amuse me.. I've obviously struck a chord, with my comment about your stupid headcam and childish zeal to prove you're the innocent, upright victim whilst out on the road... pathetic
tomtopper wrote:You just don't like cyclists do you? You feel that somehow you have superior rights on the road, but I can assure you you don't. Bear in mind that if you are involved in an accident with a cyclist or pedestrian they will come off far worse, so perhaps start being more careful. You're a dying breed of motorists who need to learn the law. I guess in the forty plus age range with a ever expanding midriff, and someone who passed their test in the days when you only needed a few lessons? Regardless- you need to start thinking about what you're doing when driving and keep your personal little anger issues to yourself.
johnny_p wrote:Other road users do breach the highway code, didn't you know that? However, They quite rarely drive the wrong way down one way streets, or drive across pedestrian crossings with the pedestrians, or drive on the footpath, and through red lights etc, etc.
tomtopper wrote:And of course other road users don't "breach the Highway Code" do they? So why are cyclists seen as "a menace" (your words) on the roads? Can you put a figure to the number of people killed on the roads by these "menacing cyclists"? Very few if any I suspect, certainly a negligible amount compared to the amount of people killed and seriously injured every year in motor vehicles.
Age old argument, that'll continue forever more..
Cyclists always seem to be complaining, yet don't give a second thought about breaching the highway code when it suits.. And they know fine well what congestion and snarl ups await them in city centres.. Bicycles can be quite a menace on the road... There's also the fact of too much traffic on the road, with many switched off car drivers.. Frustration plays a big part in most of these incidents...
Also- if "there's too much traffic on the road" aren't cyclist helping reduce that figure by using their bikes instead of their cars?
If one good thing comes out of this accident it may be that the Police will start viewing the aggressive attitudes of drivers towards cyclists more seriously. By the way- I now keep a video camera running constantly when I'm on the road now. It will come in very handy in court the next time I'm abused or driven into by a careless idiot.
Why are cyclists seen as a menace? Well I did say 'they can be' ..Not that all are.. It's usually the one's with the same 'holier than thou' attitude as yourself, that are..
Road deaths? A lot more by motorists, as there's generally a **** sight more of them on the road, doing much longer and faster journeys, and, as I clearly stated before, ( which you clearly overlooked).. There are many switched off drivers on the road, and too much traffic.. (and do you seriously think the small percentage who use their cycles, is the answer to today's congestion? come on).. Cyclists can cause quite a bit damage though, and just simply cycle off a lot of the time...
Motorists are insured and require a licence which is only gained by a test of competence (mediocre, in my opinion).. Vehicles are registered, display a plate and their drivers are traceable and accountable for any damage they cause.. Unlike cyclists..
The 'menace' cyclists out there are the one's who think they're whiter then white, and ride around with a headcam on, almost looking for a situation, caused, often accidentally (but not always) by a motorist, whilst ignoring their own misdemeanours...
Why go into a congested sprawl on a cycle, and then shout about getting cut up etc, when you knew that would most likely occur in the first place?
Like many cyclists now I keep a camera running when I'm out now and will not hesitate to show the film footage to the Police next time I'm hit, or abused by a motorist. Please remember what these comments are based on- not whether or not "cyclists can use the roads" but a police officer who was hit by a vehicle.
You should also be thinking who'd come worse off in a collision with, say, an artics blindspot.. And i've forgotton more about motoring, motoring law and road design then you'll ever know... I'm also well beyond my forties and fortunate enough to have a 32inch midriff, exercised by walking and the gym and... yes, cycling on bridleways safely insulated from the madness on the road.. (what that has to do with the argument, I don't know.. Malice I guess...) I've taught people to drive at an advanced level and even wrote books on the subject (google me) I know EXACTLY what i'm doing when I drive..
Are police officers the epitome of perfection? I can assure they're not.. Doesn't matter what his job was.. It's all down to facts surrounding the incident.. Some cyclists can be as bad as some motorists .. How can you not see that?
Still you've "kept yourself in shape by riding on bridleways" (but never on roads), because as you say you need to "insulate yourself from the madness on the road". The madness you describe is surely from older drivers like yourself who have an air of superiority and anger. Please calm down before you get behind the wheel.
I've spoken to a class one Police Instructor who knows you- and yes he smirked when I mentioned your name. Still anyone can write a book these days I guess.
Must dash anyway. I'm going to hit the keyboard and get my book on Nuclear Physics started......
johnny_p
says...
1:50pm Tue 2 Oct 12
"Topper is a very angry man. He encourages the reader to view every other road user as a moron. Bad drivers they may be, but morons they generally are not. The use of emotive language throughout encourages a frustrated, vindictive approach for the reader, rather than a balanced, sensible outlook. He prefers to fight fire with fire. Defensive driving is one thing, manic paranoia is a step too far.
Topper goes on to recommend certain driving techniques which may be eminently sensible to the pub know-it-all, but if used in real driving situations would probably provoke a road-rage attack. Some also appear to contravene the Highway Code (use of horn and lights). I'm sure it all made perfect sense to Topper as he sat in front of his desk with furrowed brow scribbling angrily, but a lot of it is just too clever for its own good; some manoeuvres for example assume that other drivers will understand your complex shuffling around in the middle of a junction, rather than just driving into the side of you.
On the bright side, the paperback is just flexible enough that the spine can curve around the windscreen as a useful de-icing tool on cold winter mornings."
Blankface
says...
5:17pm Tue 2 Oct 12
johnny_p
says...
5:29pm Tue 2 Oct 12
Blankface
says...
5:45pm Tue 2 Oct 12
johnny_p wrote:Even his book stinks of arrogance, it's not just Advanced Driving but "Very Advanced Driving" PMSL.
...... and interesting to see in your book you describe cyclists as "Organ Donors". That's not very nice is it? If you manage to kill a cyclist with your aggressive driving style I suspect the Prosecution will produce some of the quotes from your book in court. Better still I suspect the Police pay you a visit before you do manage to hurt someone.
tomtopper
says...
6:15pm Tue 2 Oct 12
johnny_p wrote:Ha .. I can certainly read you and others of your ilk like a book... The first thing you'd do was quote a bad review.. How did I know you were going to do that..? Say's it all really.. The book has a majority of good reviews, but you try and bolster your own inadequate argument by using reviews left from people like yourself.. You're not the first, and you won't be the last.. I don't expect many more reviews to be flooding in as the book ran its course around '04 after several reprints... the last being 2001
tomtopper wrote:Ouch- anger issues here! I see you're a "writer" who feels that I'm "an Idiot who sounds like you shouldn't be nowhere (sic) near a road". So I googled your book on "Advanced Driving" techniques on the Amazon website.... the good reviews on your book are hardly flooding in are they? A couple of reviewers describe you as being "arrogant and dangerous".
johnny_p wrote:I don't like arrogant jumped up idiot cyclists like yourself... You're an Idiot who sounds like you shouldn't be nowhere near a road.. Your imbecilic replies amuse me.. I've obviously struck a chord, with my comment about your stupid headcam and childish zeal to prove you're the innocent, upright victim whilst out on the road... pathetic
tomtopper wrote:You just don't like cyclists do you? You feel that somehow you have superior rights on the road, but I can assure you you don't. Bear in mind that if you are involved in an accident with a cyclist or pedestrian they will come off far worse, so perhaps start being more careful. You're a dying breed of motorists who need to learn the law. I guess in the forty plus age range with a ever expanding midriff, and someone who passed their test in the days when you only needed a few lessons? Regardless- you need to start thinking about what you're doing when driving and keep your personal little anger issues to yourself.
johnny_p wrote:Other road users do breach the highway code, didn't you know that? However, They quite rarely drive the wrong way down one way streets, or drive across pedestrian crossings with the pedestrians, or drive on the footpath, and through red lights etc, etc.
tomtopper wrote:And of course other road users don't "breach the Highway Code" do they? So why are cyclists seen as "a menace" (your words) on the roads? Can you put a figure to the number of people killed on the roads by these "menacing cyclists"? Very few if any I suspect, certainly a negligible amount compared to the amount of people killed and seriously injured every year in motor vehicles.
Age old argument, that'll continue forever more..
Cyclists always seem to be complaining, yet don't give a second thought about breaching the highway code when it suits.. And they know fine well what congestion and snarl ups await them in city centres.. Bicycles can be quite a menace on the road... There's also the fact of too much traffic on the road, with many switched off car drivers.. Frustration plays a big part in most of these incidents...
Also- if "there's too much traffic on the road" aren't cyclist helping reduce that figure by using their bikes instead of their cars?
If one good thing comes out of this accident it may be that the Police will start viewing the aggressive attitudes of drivers towards cyclists more seriously. By the way- I now keep a video camera running constantly when I'm on the road now. It will come in very handy in court the next time I'm abused or driven into by a careless idiot.
Why are cyclists seen as a menace? Well I did say 'they can be' ..Not that all are.. It's usually the one's with the same 'holier than thou' attitude as yourself, that are..
Road deaths? A lot more by motorists, as there's generally a **** sight more of them on the road, doing much longer and faster journeys, and, as I clearly stated before, ( which you clearly overlooked).. There are many switched off drivers on the road, and too much traffic.. (and do you seriously think the small percentage who use their cycles, is the answer to today's congestion? come on).. Cyclists can cause quite a bit damage though, and just simply cycle off a lot of the time...
Motorists are insured and require a licence which is only gained by a test of competence (mediocre, in my opinion).. Vehicles are registered, display a plate and their drivers are traceable and accountable for any damage they cause.. Unlike cyclists..
The 'menace' cyclists out there are the one's who think they're whiter then white, and ride around with a headcam on, almost looking for a situation, caused, often accidentally (but not always) by a motorist, whilst ignoring their own misdemeanours...
Why go into a congested sprawl on a cycle, and then shout about getting cut up etc, when you knew that would most likely occur in the first place?
Like many cyclists now I keep a camera running when I'm out now and will not hesitate to show the film footage to the Police next time I'm hit, or abused by a motorist. Please remember what these comments are based on- not whether or not "cyclists can use the roads" but a police officer who was hit by a vehicle.
You should also be thinking who'd come worse off in a collision with, say, an artics blindspot.. And i've forgotton more about motoring, motoring law and road design then you'll ever know... I'm also well beyond my forties and fortunate enough to have a 32inch midriff, exercised by walking and the gym and... yes, cycling on bridleways safely insulated from the madness on the road.. (what that has to do with the argument, I don't know.. Malice I guess...) I've taught people to drive at an advanced level and even wrote books on the subject (google me) I know EXACTLY what i'm doing when I drive..
Are police officers the epitome of perfection? I can assure they're not.. Doesn't matter what his job was.. It's all down to facts surrounding the incident.. Some cyclists can be as bad as some motorists .. How can you not see that?
Still you've "kept yourself in shape by riding on bridleways" (but never on roads), because as you say you need to "insulate yourself from the madness on the road". The madness you describe is surely from older drivers like yourself who have an air of superiority and anger. Please calm down before you get behind the wheel.
I've spoken to a class one Police Instructor who knows you- and yes he smirked when I mentioned your name. Still anyone can write a book these days I guess.
Must dash anyway. I'm going to hit the keyboard and get my book on Nuclear Physics started......
Here's another review in the interests of balance and for the benefit of those reading this thread..
" Tom Topper explains advanced driving in the real world with many illustrated examples and explantions. The writing style is excellent with a judicious use of humour to make it interesting and enjoyable to read. I first read this book nearly 20 years ago and have been driving to the principals it teaches ever since with over half a million miles of accident free motoring now behind me. This book should be required reading for all drivers, young and old!"
I ride my bicycle off the main roads because they're generally overcrowded and dangerous... The madness I describe is from a variety of inexperienced and arrogant road users.. Buses and School run mums usually being the most dangerous.. Where do you get your information on older drivers being a problem on the road? Insurance companies don't seem to reflect that.. Having an air of superiority behind the wheel can get you killed, it's the last thing I have and something I advise against..
I'd be interested to know who the traffic officer is and/or what force he's from.. I used to sit in on a lot of class one runs with traffic a few years back , primarily with Hendon guys, and I still keep in touch with a lot of them.. I don't know why he'd be smirking though, as my principles are very much the same.., commentary driving, IPSGA roadcraft, sightline and presentation specialization, contact position overtakes etc..
Yes, anyone can write a book, but not everyone can get published, let alone re-printed.. A very difficult achievement
tomtopper
says...
6:21pm Tue 2 Oct 12
Blankface wrote:Oh, here's the massively jealous bus driver, who doesn't give a toss about other road users.. I can even be bothered to waste typeset on you..
johnny_p wrote:Even his book stinks of arrogance, it's not just Advanced Driving but "Very Advanced Driving" PMSL.
...... and interesting to see in your book you describe cyclists as "Organ Donors". That's not very nice is it? If you manage to kill a cyclist with your aggressive driving style I suspect the Prosecution will produce some of the quotes from your book in court. Better still I suspect the Police pay you a visit before you do manage to hurt someone.
And for jonnyp it was motorcyclists who generally go nuts on sunny bank holidays as to whom I was referring in the book, NOT cyclists ..
johnny_p
says...
6:28pm Tue 2 Oct 12
I'm sure those Police drivers aren't very good though just as you mention in an earlier post. I bet they're really grateful to get you sharing your supreme knowledge with them. Do you let the anger flood out on your training courses to simulate how to drive properly, or calm it down a bit?
If only the driver who had hit the Policeman on his bike in Darlington was one of your ex-students it wouldn't have happened eh? Or maybe it was you at the wheel......
johnny_p
says...
6:32pm Tue 2 Oct 12
tomtopper wrote:Oh sorry- it's was motorcyclists who you view as "Organ Donors", not cyclists. Very honest. Still, I guess you view cyclists as being even further down the food chain as they don't have licences, insurance or pay road tax.....?
Blankface wrote:Oh, here's the massively jealous bus driver, who doesn't give a toss about other road users.. I can even be bothered to waste typeset on you..
johnny_p wrote:Even his book stinks of arrogance, it's not just Advanced Driving but "Very Advanced Driving" PMSL.
...... and interesting to see in your book you describe cyclists as "Organ Donors". That's not very nice is it? If you manage to kill a cyclist with your aggressive driving style I suspect the Prosecution will produce some of the quotes from your book in court. Better still I suspect the Police pay you a visit before you do manage to hurt someone.
And for jonnyp it was motorcyclists who generally go nuts on sunny bank holidays as to whom I was referring in the book, NOT cyclists ..
tomtopper
says...
6:33pm Tue 2 Oct 12
Blankface wrote:I'm glad it has.. Nice to be trolled.. Why don't you mail me sometime and I can show you how to drive that bus of your's properly...
Hahaha this thread has amused me Mr Topper.
johnny_p
says...
6:39pm Tue 2 Oct 12
tomtopper wrote:You're qualified to teach Advanced Bus Driving too? What else? Advanced Bridleway Cycling? This is getting really interesting now.
Blankface wrote:I'm glad it has.. Nice to be trolled.. Why don't you mail me sometime and I can show you how to drive that bus of your's properly...
Hahaha this thread has amused me Mr Topper.
tomtopper
says...
6:52pm Tue 2 Oct 12
johnny_p wrote:A lot of traffic officers are excellent, I can't see where I've said otherwise? I was on about a copper riding a bike in earlier posts not about c1 drivers..
Interesting. Maybe I should read a book on mere "advanced driving" first before I read your book on "Very Advanced Driving".
I'm sure those Police drivers aren't very good though just as you mention in an earlier post. I bet they're really grateful to get you sharing your supreme knowledge with them. Do you let the anger flood out on your training courses to simulate how to drive properly, or calm it down a bit?
If only the driver who had hit the Policeman on his bike in Darlington was one of your ex-students it wouldn't have happened eh? Or maybe it was you at the wheel......
Anyone trained by me would never hit a cyclist or any other road user for that matter.. You seem to think it's aggression on the road that i'm promoting when it's clearly not.. How is lifting your vision, presenting yourself earlier to other road users, using a 'cocoon' system around your vehicle 360 degrees, driving to the road conditions rather than the law, being able to ALWAYS stop in the distance you see to be clear, aggressive driving..?
The uninitiated always assume that advanced driving, means driving fast..
My book is termed 'very' advanced driving because it goes a step beyond the standard roadcraft stuff, and provides a real world insight, and some very sensible, but off the cuff techniques for making sensible and SAFE progress through traffic, an example would be using an open lane on a congested roundabout, presenting oneself first (important) before giving a clear indication of direction, ALWAYS acknowledging other traffic and thanking them.. thus making progress an lessening the stress/congestion..
I don't know the facts around the incident in question, so I can't really comment except to say it could be eithers fault, something you refuse to recognise...
mark.wilkinson
says...
6:59pm Tue 2 Oct 12
tomtopper
says...
7:02pm Tue 2 Oct 12
johnny_p wrote:That's just a childish and silly comment really.. the principles are pretty much similar, with some minor differences obviously.. Similar to HGV's, of which i used to be an examiner also
tomtopper wrote:You're qualified to teach Advanced Bus Driving too? What else? Advanced Bridleway Cycling? This is getting really interesting now.
Blankface wrote:I'm glad it has.. Nice to be trolled.. Why don't you mail me sometime and I can show you how to drive that bus of your's properly...
Hahaha this thread has amused me Mr Topper.
tomtopper
says...
7:03pm Tue 2 Oct 12
mark.wilkinson wrote:I think you might be right Mark..
Give it a rest ffs. It's pathetic!
johnny_p
says...
7:05pm Tue 2 Oct 12
You said, quote:
"Are police officers the epitome of perfection? I can assure they're not.."
Still- I'm pleased to see you're calming down a little. Now drive carefully; and remember- you're on camera.
Blankface
says...
4:27am Wed 3 Oct 12
tomtopper wrote:No thanks, I do a pretty good job without your "Very Advanced Driving" knowledge.
Blankface wrote:I'm glad it has.. Nice to be trolled.. Why don't you mail me sometime and I can show you how to drive that bus of your's properly...
Hahaha this thread has amused me Mr Topper.
Blankface
says...
4:42am Wed 3 Oct 12
tomtopper wrote:You think I'm massively jealous, hahaha it's clear that you stink of arrogance (still) and its you who doesn't give a toss about other road users.
Blankface wrote:Oh, here's the massively jealous bus driver, who doesn't give a toss about other road users.. I can even be bothered to waste typeset on you..
johnny_p wrote:Even his book stinks of arrogance, it's not just Advanced Driving but "Very Advanced Driving" PMSL.
...... and interesting to see in your book you describe cyclists as "Organ Donors". That's not very nice is it? If you manage to kill a cyclist with your aggressive driving style I suspect the Prosecution will produce some of the quotes from your book in court. Better still I suspect the Police pay you a visit before you do manage to hurt someone.
And for jonnyp it was motorcyclists who generally go nuts on sunny bank holidays as to whom I was referring in the book, NOT cyclists ..
Blankface
says...
5:02am Wed 3 Oct 12
drainman
says...
7:49am Wed 3 Oct 12
johnny_p
says...
9:02am Wed 3 Oct 12
Could I ask you to clarify your feelings on this? Do you feel for example that cyclists should not be on the road and if not what are the alternatives?
BMD
says...
11:01am Wed 3 Oct 12
I believe cyclists should be on the roads, but I also believe in not taking any un-necessary risks at known black-spots!
If there is an option to dismount and walk a bicycle on the footpath until it is safe to return to the road, surely this is the most sensible route to be taken.
miketually
says...
12:08pm Wed 3 Oct 12
In fact, pushing my bike along an off-road bike track will be safer than riding along it. My speed will be lower and I'm less likely to fall or skid.
Taken to extremes, I'd just walk everywhere.
I can minimise the risk of remaining on the road through road positioning and signalling.
miketually
says...
12:13pm Wed 3 Oct 12
miketually
says...
12:13pm Wed 3 Oct 12
BMD
says...
2:02pm Wed 3 Oct 12
miketually wrote:I wasnt refering to Haugton road bridge, but your previous post has highlighted that it is not a straight forward journey.
Oh, and that bridge isn't a known blackspot.
Personally - I would not attempt to cycle the round-about system at St Cuthberts Way in heavy traffic.
miketually
says...
3:16pm Wed 3 Oct 12
I wouldn't normally ride the ring road either; seeing some of people who do scares me.
It's a shame that the cycle alternative to the ringroad is so roundabout (pun intended), requiring trips up into the town centre and into the Bus-Filled Canyon Of Death (Tubwell Row) or down back streets that aren't particularly safe-feeling at night (Borough Road and the back lane toward the station). There's a huge amount of space down the side of the ring road that could be used for bicycles, but I guess the council/engineers are nervous of the crossing points near the roundabout.
I had to regularly ride home late on a Monday night, so started to use the ring road as it was so quiet at that time. Then a car failed to give way to me and drove into me.
That left me with the option of either dark back street, dangerous road, or breaking the law by riding along a pavement. I chose to ride along the pavement.
I suspect that the ring road is actually safest when it's at its most busy, as traffic speeds will be so much slower.
This compromise/decision pops up far too often. Do I take the safer, longer route or nip down this street? Do I wait for ages for the crossing, or ride along this pavement?
They're the sort of compromises that just aren't made when designing roads for cars - in fact, there's the problem: we design roads for cars, not for people. We optimise for speed and flow, not for safety and active travel options.
There's also the issue of gritting in winter, or the speed of repair. Until today, I've had to use the road where I wouldn't otherwise, because a pedestrian/cycle bridge over the river was out of bounds during/after the flooding. In the winter, I can't use any of the off-road routes because they're not gritted, so I'm back onto the road.
ianh
says...
4:37pm Wed 3 Oct 12
Got to disagree with you to some extent there Mike. Most of the changes made to the town centre in recent years has been exactly the opposite, ie reducing the speed of traffic flow with less lanes at junctions etc.
The roundabout on the ring road in front of the Cricketers is a particular bug-bear of mine.
They reduced the southbound lanes from 3 to 2,so that those turning left up Yarm road share the same lane as those staying on the ring road. Combined with Darlington drivers inability to use their indicators it means that collisions are far more frequent with cars entering the roundabout from Yarm road not mis-reading the others intended direction.
As for lack of gritting etc, this is an issue which affects all road users, especially in the rural areas where there is even less undertaken
miketually
says...
5:20pm Wed 3 Oct 12
The Greenbank Road/Woodland Road junction is another example. There's an advanced stop line for cyclists, but no access lane as the council wouldn't remove the barely ever used right turn lane. And don't get me started on the ignored and non-policed bus lane on that road.
(Bus lanes and their placement is a whole other rant!)
Gritting does affect all road users, but only a small percentage of car routes aren't gritted while 100% of cycle routes are ungritted. It also forces cyclists back onto main roads at a time of year when they're most dangerous.
(The "send them down parallel streets" approach to cycle routes has a similar effect. Lovely on sunny summer days, but as soon as the weather turns and/or the night draw in, they're useless and might as well not be there.)
What we really need is 20mph speed limits on all roads where correctly constructed cycle paths aren't in place.
tomtopper
says...
9:06pm Wed 3 Oct 12
Blankface wrote:Well, firstly blankface, my reply was put in the same mocking manner as yours..
tomtopper wrote:No thanks, I do a pretty good job without your "Very Advanced Driving" knowledge.
Blankface wrote:I'm glad it has.. Nice to be trolled.. Why don't you mail me sometime and I can show you how to drive that bus of your's properly...
Hahaha this thread has amused me Mr Topper.
Secondly, you're the one who stated on other threads that consideration for other road users "isn't my problem" .. Your words, not mine.. Hardly the sign of a good driver is it? As someone whom drives for a living, you should be always be looking to improve your skills..
tomtopper
says...
9:35pm Wed 3 Oct 12
johnny_p wrote:Good question...
Mr Topper- I notice your use of the word "jealous" when referring to someone who drives a bus. To me this implies that you suggest their is a hierarchy of road users depending upon which vehicle they drive. i am concerned that someone who considers himself an advanced driver (very advanced) can be so judgemental.
Could I ask you to clarify your feelings on this? Do you feel for example that cyclists should not be on the road and if not what are the alternatives?
The jealous comment was used as provocation, as blankface consistently attempts to use the same kind of provocation toward me across various threads.. Basically I was speaking to him on his level..
Admittedly, in my experience, bus drivers aren't the most professional of drivers, very lax in a lot of cases, considering the size and the load of what they're carrying.. In a way it's partly understandable, overfamiliarity with routes, irate passengers etc.. I couldn't do it 8hrs a day, every day..
Buses are primarily driven in pedestrian & hazard rich areas, such as city centres, accessing roads that only allow buses, roads which pedestrians walk across with much less care than full on roads, a possible recipe for disaster, plus buses have blind spots... My point is that bus drivers need to be more highly trained, more skilled than todays bunch..
Cyclists.. The Augustus Windsock cyclist, courteous and proficient, is a most welcome sight on the road, and a good example to others, however there seems to be a particular type of cyclist prevalent these days, aggressive and pushy, weaving through traffic by any means, severely rebuking anyone who pulls across their path of cheap overtakes, yet expecting the rest of the road users to be textbook perfect, as if that would ever be the case! I still don't mind this lot on the road just as there are some terrible drivers on the road, but they should all acknowledge they're far from perfect.. If you're using the road, you should really have to have at least done a proficiency test..
To be an advanced driver, you have to be judgmental, i'm afraid, otherwise you put yourself at risk...
Blankface
says...
9:47pm Wed 3 Oct 12
tomtopper
says...
10:57pm Wed 3 Oct 12
johnny_p
says...
11:41pm Wed 3 Oct 12
tomtopper wrote:Interesting that you seem to have a name for the different types of road user you encounter when operating as a Very Advanced Driver. I'm not sure exactly what an "Augustus Windsock cyclist" is, but regardless of the cycling style other they use I fail to see how they can really endanger, harm or inconvenience you in any way whatsoever.
johnny_p wrote:Good question...
Mr Topper- I notice your use of the word "jealous" when referring to someone who drives a bus. To me this implies that you suggest their is a hierarchy of road users depending upon which vehicle they drive. i am concerned that someone who considers himself an advanced driver (very advanced) can be so judgemental.
Could I ask you to clarify your feelings on this? Do you feel for example that cyclists should not be on the road and if not what are the alternatives?
The jealous comment was used as provocation, as blankface consistently attempts to use the same kind of provocation toward me across various threads.. Basically I was speaking to him on his level..
Admittedly, in my experience, bus drivers aren't the most professional of drivers, very lax in a lot of cases, considering the size and the load of what they're carrying.. In a way it's partly understandable, overfamiliarity with routes, irate passengers etc.. I couldn't do it 8hrs a day, every day..
Buses are primarily driven in pedestrian & hazard rich areas, such as city centres, accessing roads that only allow buses, roads which pedestrians walk across with much less care than full on roads, a possible recipe for disaster, plus buses have blind spots... My point is that bus drivers need to be more highly trained, more skilled than todays bunch..
Cyclists.. The Augustus Windsock cyclist, courteous and proficient, is a most welcome sight on the road, and a good example to others, however there seems to be a particular type of cyclist prevalent these days, aggressive and pushy, weaving through traffic by any means, severely rebuking anyone who pulls across their path of cheap overtakes, yet expecting the rest of the road users to be textbook perfect, as if that would ever be the case! I still don't mind this lot on the road just as there are some terrible drivers on the road, but they should all acknowledge they're far from perfect.. If you're using the road, you should really have to have at least done a proficiency test..
To be an advanced driver, you have to be judgmental, i'm afraid, otherwise you put yourself at risk...
Incidentally- I own two cars and two motorbikes (so pay "Road Tax" on four vehicles). I wouldn't consider myself to be an advanced driver, but I don't how you feel you can consider give yourself that title when you have distain and aggression towards other road users.
Perhaps as a (very) Advanced Driver you can anticipate and deal with these minor inconveniences that (you feel cyclists) cause without feeling the need to get angry and write comments on newspaper websites? You may feel that the comment I copied about your book left on the Amazon website was unfairly chosen, but there are many other reviewers of your book who feel the same way.
Good luck and perhaps try to calm your driving style down a little?
Blankface
says...
5:37am Thu 4 Oct 12
tomtopper wrote:Wind your neck in topper, I said other road users problems isn't my problem as I have my own to deal with now stopping talking bull and pull your head out of your behind.
No point in changing the goalposts now.. You said other road users weren't your problem.. I said, all road activity forward, side and rear, should be taken into consideration, especially as you're representing public transport .. You were having none of it, and clearly represented the bad attitude prevelant amongst a lot of psv drivers
Blankface
says...
5:41am Thu 4 Oct 12
Normski1960
says...
9:00am Thu 4 Oct 12
...when I'm on my bike I try to use a bit of common sense and allow for cars as I can put myself in THEIR place...
...now for the fun bit...parking across cyce lanes is stupid and dangerous and no quarter should be given, it forces vunerable cyclists out into the traffic flow, were both they and the motorist get frustrated....
...and if a motorist is being a dick I will deliberately wind them up by cycling up the middle of the road, slowly.:))
...and I pay my vehicle excise duty....
tomtopper
says...
11:13pm Thu 4 Oct 12
johnny_p wrote:I fail to see where I've put forward that I'm aggressive or angry on the road.. I have actually stated over and over and over again, the contrary, to aggressive driving.. What is frustrating is trying to debate with someone who is obviously unable to digest the content of my posts..
tomtopper wrote:Interesting that you seem to have a name for the different types of road user you encounter when operating as a Very Advanced Driver. I'm not sure exactly what an "Augustus Windsock cyclist" is, but regardless of the cycling style other they use I fail to see how they can really endanger, harm or inconvenience you in any way whatsoever.
johnny_p wrote:Good question...
Mr Topper- I notice your use of the word "jealous" when referring to someone who drives a bus. To me this implies that you suggest their is a hierarchy of road users depending upon which vehicle they drive. i am concerned that someone who considers himself an advanced driver (very advanced) can be so judgemental.
Could I ask you to clarify your feelings on this? Do you feel for example that cyclists should not be on the road and if not what are the alternatives?
The jealous comment was used as provocation, as blankface consistently attempts to use the same kind of provocation toward me across various threads.. Basically I was speaking to him on his level..
Admittedly, in my experience, bus drivers aren't the most professional of drivers, very lax in a lot of cases, considering the size and the load of what they're carrying.. In a way it's partly understandable, overfamiliarity with routes, irate passengers etc.. I couldn't do it 8hrs a day, every day..
Buses are primarily driven in pedestrian & hazard rich areas, such as city centres, accessing roads that only allow buses, roads which pedestrians walk across with much less care than full on roads, a possible recipe for disaster, plus buses have blind spots... My point is that bus drivers need to be more highly trained, more skilled than todays bunch..
Cyclists.. The Augustus Windsock cyclist, courteous and proficient, is a most welcome sight on the road, and a good example to others, however there seems to be a particular type of cyclist prevalent these days, aggressive and pushy, weaving through traffic by any means, severely rebuking anyone who pulls across their path of cheap overtakes, yet expecting the rest of the road users to be textbook perfect, as if that would ever be the case! I still don't mind this lot on the road just as there are some terrible drivers on the road, but they should all acknowledge they're far from perfect.. If you're using the road, you should really have to have at least done a proficiency test..
To be an advanced driver, you have to be judgmental, i'm afraid, otherwise you put yourself at risk...
Incidentally- I own two cars and two motorbikes (so pay "Road Tax" on four vehicles). I wouldn't consider myself to be an advanced driver, but I don't how you feel you can consider give yourself that title when you have distain and aggression towards other road users.
Perhaps as a (very) Advanced Driver you can anticipate and deal with these minor inconveniences that (you feel cyclists) cause without feeling the need to get angry and write comments on newspaper websites? You may feel that the comment I copied about your book left on the Amazon website was unfairly chosen, but there are many other reviewers of your book who feel the same way.
Good luck and perhaps try to calm your driving style down a little?
Then again, it's all that can be expected from someone who fails to see how he rides on the road affects other road users.. Unbelievable!
You'll also find that there are more positive comments on my book then negative one's.. But as they say..
Jealousy is the best form of flattery..
johnny_p
says...
8:57pm Sat 6 Oct 12
tomtopper wrote:I know what you're like tutting, sighing and cursing at those other road users. You're so superior though- especially with your witty names for those non-Very-Advanced-Dr
johnny_p wrote:I fail to see where I've put forward that I'm aggressive or angry on the road.. I have actually stated over and over and over again, the contrary, to aggressive driving.. What is frustrating is trying to debate with someone who is obviously unable to digest the content of my posts..
tomtopper wrote:Interesting that you seem to have a name for the different types of road user you encounter when operating as a Very Advanced Driver. I'm not sure exactly what an "Augustus Windsock cyclist" is, but regardless of the cycling style other they use I fail to see how they can really endanger, harm or inconvenience you in any way whatsoever.
johnny_p wrote:Good question...
Mr Topper- I notice your use of the word "jealous" when referring to someone who drives a bus. To me this implies that you suggest their is a hierarchy of road users depending upon which vehicle they drive. i am concerned that someone who considers himself an advanced driver (very advanced) can be so judgemental.
Could I ask you to clarify your feelings on this? Do you feel for example that cyclists should not be on the road and if not what are the alternatives?
The jealous comment was used as provocation, as blankface consistently attempts to use the same kind of provocation toward me across various threads.. Basically I was speaking to him on his level..
Admittedly, in my experience, bus drivers aren't the most professional of drivers, very lax in a lot of cases, considering the size and the load of what they're carrying.. In a way it's partly understandable, overfamiliarity with routes, irate passengers etc.. I couldn't do it 8hrs a day, every day..
Buses are primarily driven in pedestrian & hazard rich areas, such as city centres, accessing roads that only allow buses, roads which pedestrians walk across with much less care than full on roads, a possible recipe for disaster, plus buses have blind spots... My point is that bus drivers need to be more highly trained, more skilled than todays bunch..
Cyclists.. The Augustus Windsock cyclist, courteous and proficient, is a most welcome sight on the road, and a good example to others, however there seems to be a particular type of cyclist prevalent these days, aggressive and pushy, weaving through traffic by any means, severely rebuking anyone who pulls across their path of cheap overtakes, yet expecting the rest of the road users to be textbook perfect, as if that would ever be the case! I still don't mind this lot on the road just as there are some terrible drivers on the road, but they should all acknowledge they're far from perfect.. If you're using the road, you should really have to have at least done a proficiency test..
To be an advanced driver, you have to be judgmental, i'm afraid, otherwise you put yourself at risk...
Incidentally- I own two cars and two motorbikes (so pay "Road Tax" on four vehicles). I wouldn't consider myself to be an advanced driver, but I don't how you feel you can consider give yourself that title when you have distain and aggression towards other road users.
Perhaps as a (very) Advanced Driver you can anticipate and deal with these minor inconveniences that (you feel cyclists) cause without feeling the need to get angry and write comments on newspaper websites? You may feel that the comment I copied about your book left on the Amazon website was unfairly chosen, but there are many other reviewers of your book who feel the same way.
Good luck and perhaps try to calm your driving style down a little?
Then again, it's all that can be expected from someone who fails to see how he rides on the road affects other road users.. Unbelievable!
You'll also find that there are more positive comments on my book then negative one's.. But as they say..
Jealousy is the best form of flattery..
ivers. If you stop being so critical of others, you'll start to hear yourself doing it.
But next time you refer to someone as an "Augustus Windsock" cyclist perhaps cringe a little. It was "Augustus Winthrop" who was the gentleman elderly cyclist from the public information films back in the 70's. Not "Windsock".
On the advanced driving website the question is asked
"Has anybody ever met Tom Topper? Reading his books I do get a very strong pork-pie-hat-and-str
ing-backed-driving-g
loves mental image"
I'm sorry, but you're living in a different era. The car is not king- never was, and certainly is not now.
I think you need to reassess your technique and attitudes.
tomtopper
says...
11:46pm Sat 6 Oct 12
I take it you're on about the ADUK forum, with regard to comments on myself..? A brilliant forum stuffed with a lot of good drivers.. You should have a good read, you might learn something.. And again, I'd hedge bets if that comment was made , there'd have been an equally good response in my favour..
Maybe you should post on ADUK and ask them if I should reassess my technique and attitudes..?
I don't quite understand 'your car isn't king' comment, but, unlike yourself and others, I answer every point put forward, and would say that mechanically propelled vehicles dominate the roads, and they're bigger and faster than ever and driven by progressively less capable people, therefore a road cyclist needs to be switched on, skilful and very defensive with his riding.. Is being so stubborn and arrogant on the road really worth your life, to prove a point?
I think you're the one who needs to reassess your techniques and attitude
drainman
says...
4:34pm Sun 7 Oct 12
tomtopper
says...
7:40pm Sun 7 Oct 12
drainman wrote:A professional and accurate description, used by both police and courts etc to describe cars, vans, buses, trucks, etc..
mmmmmm! mechanically propelled vehicles..... are we back in 1910.
Hardly an out of date term. Now if i'd said horseless carriage...
drainman
says...
4:38pm Mon 8 Oct 12
I've had a dreadful day at work today , but you my friend have made me laugh, i thank you.
swissball says...
4:03pm Thu 27 Sep 12